Saturday, November 22, 2008 | Register, Login
 
Forums

For your central Jersey real estate needs: JudyNJHomes.com

Private Messages     Minimize
You must be logged in to use this module.
McPhans Chatting     Minimize
Room:Users
McPhans Online     Minimize
Membership Membership:
Latest New User Latest: idolfan74
New Today New Today: 1
New Yesterday New Yesterday: 0
User Count Overall: 4814
People Online People Online:
Visitors Visitors: 36
Members Members: 3
Total Total: 39
Online Now Online Now:
CRB,  goodgracious,  Asst, 
      Minimize

   
KMF Forum     Minimize
Forums > All about Katharine > Katharine Chat
Subject: Clive Davis and the CD
Prev Next
You are not authorized to post a reply.

Page 2 of 2 << < 12
Author Messages
Username: jdmans
Online: User is Offline
Posts:61
Katharine Crazy
Katharine Crazy
Location:


Member Since 7/23/2006
05/28/2007 6:03 PM Alert 

The Clive comments only happened last Wednesday.  Tomorrow everyone can move on to Love Story support.   Sorry if anyone did not like that being brought up, but it was from a combination of Katharine's interviews and the comments at the finale.

Still, SOTR has been top 20 on the charts for 45 weeks now!  Could he not have mentioned that?  This record outsold singles for all past AI contestants except Chris Daughtry from a non-AI album.  The way he talked it is as if Katharine did nothing all year.   Taylor appeared and did not need to be mentioned.  It would have helped her career even if she is not doing ballads now.

Also Katharine has done recent successful appearances, and was on many morning shows and MTV as a guest host. 

It was really too much in the last week, everything combined - Katharine not being invited even to the audience, no appearance, really putting down Katharine as not being able to hold her own yet, along with the recent information about her disagreement with song choices. 

On to Love Story now which is a great summertime song and it should make top 30 if there is a good video.
Username: groucho
Online: User is Offline
Posts:4276

Katharine Addict
Katharine Addict
Location: Detroit area


Member Since 4/4/2006
05/28/2007 6:46 PM Alert 
Posted By zzyzx on 05/28/2007 5:35 PM
Exactly.  This was a "get your foot in the door" album.  I'm pretty sure that nobody thought this debut album was gonna elevate her to megastardom.


Actually I remember people on here enthusing about how they just listened to the whole album and just revised their sales estimates, it was going to sell 400k the first week and go platinum within 6 months. I don't know about RCA but I think expectations around here were exactly that.
katpedia.com - watch and listen to Idol, pre-Idol, and post-Idol McPhee performances all in one convenient location

"And everything around her is a silver pool of light... She makes you calm, she holds you captivated in her palm"
Username: KatFan49
Online: User is Offline
Posts:624

Katharine Addict
Katharine Addict
Location: Just outside the Capitol of the Free World


Member Since 7/8/2006
05/28/2007 7:38 PM Alert 
All in all, the album has not done that badly, especially considering that "Over It" got basically zero airplay in Los Angeles, one of the largest and most influential markets in the country.

Oh, and isn't Los Angeles Clive's backyard? If a company like RCA, headed by a power mogul like Clive Davis, can't get airplay for Katharine in LA, it tells me that for some reason they just aren't trying very hard. Personally, I think someone at RCA has gotten their nose out of joint over Katharine's insistence that she be allowed to have some say in the content of her album, the timing of the release of her album (due to having some say in revising the content), and her decision to scrap 19 Management.  Her management team is doing everything they can to get her the exposure she so deserves, but her label needs to get on the wagon too.  Her not being invited to participate on American Idol this season has, for me, no other explanation than sour grapes by someone.

Sure, Clive foots the bill. But if he really believed in Katharine's talent and marketability, he'd do his best to see that someone got over their spite and did everything within his power to make Katharine, and RCA, more successful.

Unless, of course, someone just can't get over it and has to say, in spite,  "I'll show you who's the boss, you ingrate."
Katharine's summer is full of hope, full of potential, and promises to provide many bouquets to grace the home that I call my heart.

www.myspace.com/katfan49
www.myspace.com/katfia
www.myspace.com/katspack
Username: bcollan
Online: User is Offline
Posts:2892

Katharine Addict
Katharine Addict
Location: New Jersey
Admin


Member Since 2/14/2006
05/28/2007 7:46 PM Alert 
Remember how we were all aghast at how Kat's comments (in interviews) are many times over scrutinized or taken out of context, when we all knew she really meant some other little innocent thing....

Well, Kat and Taylor fans are doing the same thing towards Clive. Cut the guy some slack, at least until the point where he's obviously not supporting Kat anymore. as far as I know, he didn't make any false, malicious or otherwise derogatory statements about Kat, so let it be.
"She sings so magnificantly, it's just amazing" David Foster
Username: GB3535
Online: User is Offline
Posts:0
Katharine Acquaintance
Katharine Acquaintance
Location:


Member Since

05/28/2007 8:14 PM Alert 
I'm not on anybody's "side" when it comes to the statements that Clive made in regards to Taylor and Kat's CD's. I just know that Clive is a pretty straight shooter and you really can't read too much into his comments. You have to take his words at face value and nothing more. It was more like a statement that he would make to shareholders more than anything else.

I met Clive a couple of times in the 70's when he first started Arista and was busy hyping Patti Smith and her debut album*.... and from what I gathered from him, sure he is out to make the most money he can from artists that he believes in.... but is more in it for the joy of music than anything else.

I know that everyone that follows Katharine is concerned about all the recent developments regarding her career of late, but Clive is not one of the bad guys.

* I digress a little... anybody out there that is too young to remember Patti Smith in her finest hour, take a listen to that first album of hers. Now that is a masterpiece of a debut album. It is one of the finest R&R records ever recorded. Raw, rough and real.
Username: kcrose
Online: User is Offline
Posts:4
Katharine Acquaintance
Katharine Acquaintance
Location:


Member Since 4/24/2006
05/28/2007 8:53 PM Alert 
Sometimes I have to wonder. Chris Daughtry was in no way everybody's favorite throughout all of last season, with the exception of maybe the judges favorite, and I actually seem to remember when he was in the bottom two with Ace prior to the whole situation with Katharine that just blew up to enormous proportions. To this day I still believe that the producers at AI as well as Clive had alot to do with that. Let's face it last year the wanted a man to win no matter what, but more specifically they wanted Chris and maybe, just maybe in the home stretch once Chris was gone they pushed a little harder to ensure Taylor won in order to prove that somehow Kat was a villain in the whole matter. Granted Chris is fairly talented but I don't find his music any more impressive than any other artist out there today, at least not to the extent where he was #1 for weeks on end. Ironically, too, he was really not #1 until Kat's album officially came out, therefore I am really led to believe there really was a push either by RCA or his die hard hard fans to ensure for lack of a better term that he would kick her ''a**". The unfortunate position Kat was put in during the top 4 has reverberated to this year and that I believe has hurt her album more than anything, because her album is respectable and again can hold it's own against others out there. Perhaps, however, on the first album out she should have stuck with the type of music people knew her for on AI and waited to do the type of music she wants for a future album, after all the songs she chose to sing on AI did get her to #2. She could have drawn off of her AI success in that area, increased the number of fans and then ventured out in other directions, but you do have to respect her for choosing to follow her heart. But back to the Chris thing, I still think that last year's fireworks hurt her as well, and it almost makes me wonder if radio stations are going to have to bring her next album out (since everybody already knows all of the songs on this album) as a "secret" artist for instance and let her music speak for itself. Kat's fans know that she is extremely talented, but I think sometimes people will focus more on disliking her music because it is "Katharine McPhee-the person who got Chris voted off of idol" (no matter how wrong it is!) Finally, lately she has mentioned getting offers for movie roles but focusing more on her music at this time, but maybe she needs to focus on movie roles, excel in acting and take people's minds off of her in "American Idol" and show people that she is in fact multi-talented and truly deserving of success. Okay, I'm done, rambled on for long enough, but just my two cents!
Username: bcollan
Online: User is Offline
Posts:2892

Katharine Addict
Katharine Addict
Location: New Jersey
Admin


Member Since 2/14/2006
05/28/2007 9:28 PM Alert 
^Welcome kcrose!

I have to give Chris alot of the credit for his success. He's get a very marketable well defined and radio friendly sound, his album is very good, and It's Not Over was a true #1 song. If only it were so easy for RCA and a fanbase to make a platinum recording sstar out of any new artist. But it's not. The substance has to be there first, meaning the sound, the image and the material.
"She sings so magnificantly, it's just amazing" David Foster
Username: kcrose
Online: User is Offline
Posts:4
Katharine Acquaintance
Katharine Acquaintance
Location:


Member Since 4/24/2006
05/29/2007 1:03 AM Alert 
Absolutely give Chris credit for his success, but can't help feel that Katharine's success in some way has been hampered by that very success. Don't get me wrong, she has still done a great job, but think she is still suffering some of the reprecussions of last year and that is unfortunate, because she could be at the caliber of Chris, given the support of RCA, Clive, etc.. Now as for Chris, again yes he is talented, but is he any more talented than other top selling artists who have had success on multiple albums, time will tell down the line with other albums. The public is fickle. Certainly this album was aided by the outcome of his time on American Idol. But this is not about him and Clive Davis no matter his success should not harm the potential of other beginning artists through his remarks. Kind of like, "If you can't say something nice about someone, then don't say anything at all!"
Username: Gregoriancant
Online: User is Offline
Posts:3706

Katharine Addict
Katharine Addict
Location: Oregon, USA


Member Since 5/26/2006
05/29/2007 2:12 AM Alert 
Posted By zzyzx on 05/28/2007 5:35 PM
Exactly.  This was a "get your foot in the door" album.  I'm pretty sure that nobody thought this debut album was gonna elevate her to megastardom.


Exactly x 2.

Anybody who's done professional creative work before knows that your first major project will frequently be a creative sacrifice just to help you build clout. There isn't a single first-time creative project by any singer, musician, writer, filmmaker (or what have you) that's the 100% vision of the artist. Well, there's been a few artists in history who've received control on their debut. Those were highly unusual, though. From my angle, any professional fiction writer will tell you that your first novel will nine times out of ten be butchered by editors to make it supposedly more marketable. That's obviously why second and third projects always seem different--because the artist is finally getting the power to make something that's 100% all them due to the success of the first project.

I worry a little that Kat may not have the power to get what she wants on her second album as she adamantly states she wants in that recent interview. Declaring that in the media when sales aren't the greatest from your first effort could lead to some internal battles down the road. But there's always exceptions...especially when the producers have faith that they're working with a major talent. I think Clive and everybody else involved knew that Kat was a goldmine in-waiting. Also, it seems to me that he had a hunch her maybe going in that power ballad Celine Dion mode could potentially start a new trend in the old Whitney Houston style all over again.

If the prevailing thought is true that the Celine sound isn't marketable anymore--does that mean Clive doesn't have a clue what's marketable any longer? I think most powerful people in the music industry would say a resounding "no" to that. That may be what David Foster was trying to get at as some people mentioned here. The reality is, maybe Kat could take that Celine sound to new heights and give it a shot in the arm. You can't assume a genre is dead until you try bringing something new to it. All it takes is some good songs with some real meaning and it'd probably work with a lot of people. I guess some might say doing that would be as much of a risk as what Kat already did with her own vision.

Anyway, Kat has to sit down with the people she wants to work with for the second project (she should get a second chance after going Gold with this one) and figure out exactly what she wants to do and not do. I still think an album produced by Babyface would be the best compromise. It'd be a balance of somewhere in the middle of ballads and the more R&B sounds she wants to nurture. Though after seeing more people on her MySpace say she should go the Celine route--it makes you wonder if there's still life in that genre. Maybe Kat should just do an album like that on the second try...and she may be shocked at how many millions she sells. Kat also has to think of her recording legacy rather than just flowing along with the fickle paths of pop. She still has plenty of time for that, though, as she's said. She's already said she'll do those more classic type of albums when she's older.

The argument has to be asked, however: Why necessarily wait?
Username: McObsessed
Online: User is Offline
Posts:293
Katharine Addict
Katharine Addict
Location:


Member Since 6/9/2006
05/29/2007 2:38 AM Alert 
I'll be very candid. I'd recognize a song is being sung by Daughtry and Elliot the first time I hear it. If I didn't know Kat's songs from her album, I wouldn't know that the singer is Kat. That's how indistinct Kat's album is, even though it's above average.

Nobody will mistake that it's Kat who sang SOTR and many other songs she did in AI5. They showcased her talent and voice.
Username: spree
Online: User is Offline
Posts:484

Katharine Addict
Katharine Addict
Location:


Member Since 2/2/2007
05/29/2007 3:05 AM Alert 
^^^i agree with this post. I remember playing Over It for my friend and he was like .."this is Katharine?"....i said YES! So, sadly, i changed the song. He couldn't recognize her voice.
Username: Amanda
Online: User is Offline
Posts:2560

Katharine Addict
Katharine Addict
Location:


Member Since 7/7/2006
05/29/2007 7:42 AM Alert 

In speaking to some friends, they offer the thought that what if "I LOST YOU/DANGEROUS WOULD HAVE BROKEN NATIONALLY, INSTEAD OF AN EXCLUSIVE WALMART ITEM, WOULD THAT HAVE OPENED THE DOOR MORE FOR HER ALBUM?That also would have left a spot on her album for another song that was omitted.

 

Any theories on that?
Some people come into our lives and quickly go.Others stay for a while and leave footprints on our hearts and we are never the same. That my friends is Katharine McPhee
Username: zzyzx
Online: User is Offline
Posts:2105

Katharine Addict
Katharine Addict
Location: Toronto, Canada


Member Since 9/23/2006
05/29/2007 8:49 AM Alert 
Actually, Kelly Clarkson's fans are upset because they feel that Kat and Taylor got a plug from Clive, when he didn't even mention Kelly's new single, Never Again. And yeah, I always thought that single should have been offered widely instead of exclusively to Wal-Mart. There are many many people who don't shop at Wal-Mart .
Username: groucho
Online: User is Offline
Posts:4276

Katharine Addict
Katharine Addict
Location: Detroit area


Member Since 4/4/2006
05/29/2007 10:28 AM Alert 

This is very interesting. After months of being told "quit complaining, she didn't make that album for you, accept it for what it is" now we're back to "maybe she should have aimed more squarely for the Idol crowd." And time after time, it seems like we're getting radio tour reports that people reacted better to the cover ballad than to the original material from the album. But I guess that's what happens with first albums and first tours (not counting the Idol tour of course) - you find out what works and what doesn't.

BTW it seems like she's been so plagued by mishaps on this tour - false starts, wrong music, tracks skipping - she ought to have some alternate stuff up her sleeve as filler. Then the crowd could see that she doesn't need that help, she can just stand there and sing and do fine, which evidently she did at Six Flags, where a fan in the crowd suggested doing Feellin' Good a cappella, so she ended the show with that instead of beginning with it. Why spend another 2-1/2 years at Boston Conservatory when you can do two years of Idol and miscellaneous touring and get exposed to all this wonderful stuff first hand? It's all a learning experience.

Just occurred to me, maybe Clive wanted to test the  big-ballad waters because he's pushing for a Whitney comeback and wants to see what things are like. "Go ahead, Kat, you go first, we're right behind you!"

katpedia.com - watch and listen to Idol, pre-Idol, and post-Idol McPhee performances all in one convenient location

"And everything around her is a silver pool of light... She makes you calm, she holds you captivated in her palm"
Username: GB3535
Online: User is Offline
Posts:0
Katharine Acquaintance
Katharine Acquaintance
Location:


Member Since

05/29/2007 3:24 PM Alert 
Posted By McObsessed on 05/29/2007 2:38 AM
I'll be very candid. I'd recognize a song is being sung by Daughtry and Elliot the first time I hear it. If I didn't know Kat's songs from her album, I wouldn't know that the singer is Kat. That's how indistinct Kat's album is, even though it's above average.

Nobody will mistake that it's Kat who sang SOTR and many other songs she did in AI5. They showcased her talent and voice.


That's EXACTLY the problem I have with the entire CD.  Kat is better than the songs, production and the arrangements, but her true talent (that voice) on many cuts, isn't allowed to shine.
Username: luv4llntkm
Online: User is Offline
Posts:1040

Katharine Addict
Katharine Addict
Location:


Member Since 6/29/2006
05/30/2007 5:30 PM Alert 
This was posted on IDF yesterday. So funny!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_DZCVAa4Ok
Username: sjwolves
Online: User is Offline
Posts:2746

Katharine Addict
Katharine Addict
Location: Northern California


Member Since 7/12/2006
06/01/2007 3:50 PM Alert 
Posted By groucho on 05/28/2007 5:22 PM
Posted By nanhasmcpheever on 05/28/2007 1:03 PM

The die-hard fans like us, will stick with her - she probably lost, however, the audience or group of semi-fans that voted for her, but don't care for the pop/r&b genre (like I've said before - everyone at my work - they do not like her CD because they don't like that kind of music).



If she had a whole album full of Love Story and Open Toes i could understand that, but that is not the case. To me it sounds like it's all over the place. There should be something for everybody, unless they were going to be disappointed that she didn't put Rainbow and CROCS on the album, which was never gonna happen.


The simple fact is (and Katharine said this in an interview before the album was released)....a very small percentage of the people that vote for you on Idol actually buy your CD.  Remember what she said about voting for Ruben but she didn't buy his album?  She knew this.  She treated this whole thing like she's a totally new artist.  Which probably hurt her.&