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Subject: Clive Davis and the CD
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Username: jdmans
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Katharine Crazy
Katharine Crazy
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Member Since 7/23/2006

05/28/2007 9:11 AM Alert 

From recent comments Katharine indicated that 20 songs were chosen for the album and she did not want the ballads 'ordinary world' and maybe 'home', and that 8 of her choices were left out.

What was the thinking when the album was made...usually selections are included with the expectation that singles can be done later on. If Katharine did not want the songs on the album why were they included since she would not want to perform these as singles or have them released later.  She already had a top 20 single for over 20 weeks at that time for the fans that like her ballads. She must have said the same thing at meetings that she did on TRL when she mentiioned that the ballads were 'part of her' but that she was only 22 and did not want to do these for now.

The comments at the AI final were surprising as well ..her album starts at #2 so why was that not mentioned.  That is like saying that she did not meet Clive's expectations, when he made the wrong choices for the album. 

The history of AI with first albums has not been a great one and here is another example where they should have listened to the artist, especially given Katharine's musical background, her success already with SOTR, and her desire to have a change in the direction of her career.  Kelly Clarkson's and Carrie Underwood's first AI produced album both did not do well and by now after 5 years they should have learned from past mistakes.

The second produced CD without AI input will certainly do far better. 

Username: groucho
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Katharine Addict
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Member Since 4/4/2006

05/28/2007 9:48 AM Alert 
I'm trying to find some positive spin to put on this since everyone seems to have decided that Clive neglected and disrespected just about everyone but Daughtry. Did he even mention Elliott or Kellie or Paris? Kellie has a gold album and E. is evidently doing very well with a late start. Okay, they made appearances, so that was their reward. So since Taylor, who was after all the winner, sort of got snuck on with an intro you could barely hear in the middle of a slew of past Idols, and Katharine was totally absent, they got at least a mention so they would have more of a presence, even though T., despite a pre-Christmas release, has yet to actually hit the platinum that may have been expected of him, and K. is still shy of gold. Maybe he thought it was a compliment to say they could still hit the Daughtry heights with their next singles. I mean he didn't actually SAY "And then there's Tay and Kay, my bad children, who've been a severe disappointment, but I haven't disowned them quite yet." Maybe you think I'm stretching, but I said I was looking for something good.

katpedia.com - watch and listen to Idol, pre-Idol, and post-Idol McPhee performances all in one convenient location

"And everything around her is a silver pool of light... She makes you calm, she holds you captivated in her palm"
Username: Amanda
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Katharine Addict
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05/28/2007 10:11 AM Alert 
If you really look at what Clive said, I don't think he was dissing Kat or Taylor, but rather just pointing out that they were still a force to be reckoned with in the future and that Daughtry had won Round 1 between them thus far.

Some people come into our lives and quickly go.Others stay for a while and leave footprints on our hearts and we are never the same. That my friends is Katharine McPhee
Username: groucho
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Katharine Addict
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Member Since 4/4/2006

05/28/2007 10:24 AM Alert 
You mean it's like "Well, my prodigal son, who came on my show dressed in leather, with his head shaved and wearing eyeliner, went out and made me proud. Which reminds me of my other son and daughter, who are also doing okay, just not as well."

katpedia.com - watch and listen to Idol, pre-Idol, and post-Idol McPhee performances all in one convenient location

"And everything around her is a silver pool of light... She makes you calm, she holds you captivated in her palm"
Username: Amanda
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Katharine Addict
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05/28/2007 10:27 AM Alert 
I mean what he said was OK. The way he said it was Wrong

Some people come into our lives and quickly go.Others stay for a while and leave footprints on our hearts and we are never the same. That my friends is Katharine McPhee
Username: Amanda
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Katharine Addict
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05/28/2007 10:39 AM Alert 
And another thing I'd like to remind Clive Davis is "If American Idol would have promoted "OVER IT" instead of Daughtry's song every week to millions of people, would that have made a difference in sales?

Some people come into our lives and quickly go.Others stay for a while and leave footprints on our hearts and we are never the same. That my friends is Katharine McPhee
Username: zzyzx
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Katharine Addict
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Location: Toronto, Canada


Member Since 9/23/2006

05/28/2007 10:53 AM Alert 
Elliott and Paris do not record for RCA. There are other labels. It's a good thing he didn't recite actual sales figures. Now THAT would be embarrasing. He was just stating fact and had he said she was setting the world on fire, it would not have been true. I think we are getting a bit oversensitive. What he said was well intentioned, it's a matter of interpretation.
Username: groucho
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Katharine Addict
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Member Since 4/4/2006

05/28/2007 10:56 AM Alert 
Absolutely, but they got the perfect fit of song and a place for it (I'm Goin Home). Over It the single doesn't need as much help as the album does. I think it's about 75k downloads away from gold.

"We're over your looks, and we're over your voice,
So get yourself home because America's made its choice,
Oh, your sound (we've over it), your songs (we've over it)
Get along home (we're over it, we're over it, we're over)
You wanted us to vote for you,
But I'm sorry, now you're just through,
Maybe you'll get your old job back,
But we're so over, so over you!"

I'm not sure that works....

katpedia.com - watch and listen to Idol, pre-Idol, and post-Idol McPhee performances all in one convenient location

"And everything around her is a silver pool of light... She makes you calm, she holds you captivated in her palm"
Username: GB3535
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Katharine Acquaintance
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05/28/2007 10:57 AM Alert 
Clive Davis has never been one to pretty up his language in regards to artists or projects. What he said was the truth. Daughtry has done extremely well (for whatever reason) and Taylor and Kat haven't quite reached their potential.

I don't see anything wrong in the way he presented the facts. Both Taylor and Kat's CD's are good, but not great, and why should he try to hide the obvious?

I have always respected Clive in the way he has handled his artists, not saying that I always agree with his methodolgy. All he did was state what we already know. Daughtry's album has done tremendously well, while Taylor's and Kat's have done less than so.
Username: groucho
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Katharine Addict
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05/28/2007 11:01 AM Alert 
Posted By zzyzx on 05/28/2007 10:53 AM
Elliott and Paris do not record for RCA. There are other labels. It's a good thing he didn't recite actual sales figures. Now THAT would be embarrasing. He was just stating fact and had he said she was setting the world on fire, it would not have been true. I think we are getting a bit oversensitive. What he said was well intentioned, it's a matter of interpretation.


I took it at face value until I started reading all kinds of honky comments and then started wondering if I was just being naive. And I thought E. and P. recorded for subsidiaries. Well Elliott anyway. Am I wrong or that just doesn't count.

katpedia.com - watch and listen to Idol, pre-Idol, and post-Idol McPhee performances all in one convenient location

"And everything around her is a silver pool of light... She makes you calm, she holds you captivated in her palm"
Username: KristyY
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Katharine Acquaintance
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Member Since 5/19/2007

05/28/2007 11:32 AM Alert 
He was just plain nasty. Spin it all you want. It was like he said "here is your second chance, Tay and Kat, so don't blow it". Daughtry was his favored son, for sure. I actually think he was trying to tell the Ai viewers to make sure they voted correctly next time. Hmphfff!!!
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05/28/2007 11:43 AM Alert 
Posted By KristyY on 05/28/2007 11:32 AM
He was just plain nasty. Spin it all you want. It was like he said "here is your second chance, Tay and Kat, so don't blow it". Daughtry was his favored son, for sure. I actually think he was trying to tell the Ai viewers to make sure they voted correctly next time. Hmphfff!!!


 I still see it as a good wake-up call for both of them.

If they produced CD's that were selling as good as Daughtry's, he wouldn't have needed to say what he did.  He just gave the pat CEO style of talk he always does.  He was looking at the numbers and based his speech around that.  I've known plenty an executive that wouldn't have been nearly as kind as Clive when presented with similar numbers.

He wasn't been purposely cruel, just stating the situation as it now exists.  I see nothing wrong with that at all.

Username: McObsessed
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Katharine Addict
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05/28/2007 11:54 AM Alert 
Seems like we have a lot of frustrated Kat fans. Hope this doesn't put too much pressure on Kat.
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Katharine Addict
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Member Since 9/23/2006

05/28/2007 11:56 AM Alert 
Clive Davis runs three record labels and is President of BMG Entertainment for the US. He hires and pays other people to help with the final track listings on a CD with the input from the artist as well. IMO Katharine is beginning to make excuses and place blame for a less than stellar showing ofher debut album. She really needs to be careful and not diss the album while it still appears on the charts. Nobody would buy a record that the artist hates.
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05/28/2007 12:50 PM Alert 

Let's all focus our energies to get Love Story moving up the charts instead all this talk about Clive Davis. 

Kat has a misson for all her fans to get Love Story played over the airwaves and help sell more CDs.  She needs all our help to make Love Story successful!  So I urge all you to phone or email in your requests to your local stations and other stations to get Love Story played.  Remember each spin counts making movement up the chart faster.

KAT NEEDS US TO MAKE THINGS HAPPEN!!!

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Katharine Crazy
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05/28/2007 1:02 PM Alert 
Absolutely agree. been requesting Love Story all morning. our big push needs acceleration!!
Username: nanhasmcpheever
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Katharine Addict
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05/28/2007 1:03 PM Alert 

I'm trying to find some positive spin to put on this since everyone seems to have decided that Clive neglected and disrespected just about everyone but Daughtry

 

I think the positive spin on this is that Clive did not really "diss" Taylor and Kat, he simply said "maybe Love STory (and taylor's 2nd single) will do it for them". Meaning that their 1st singles didn't do it for them - but he did not say that.

He's flipping the bill - so he has a right to expect that the TOP 2 idols CD's would perform and sell. Without actually saying it on national TV, he simply stated he hopes that the next singles will do it for them (and him). You can't compare Kat/Taylor to Elliott/Paris because they were not the winner/runner-up and in the past idols that came in 3rd/5th did not get record contracts. Clive took a chance by giving Daughtry a CD and it paid off. That has not been the case with Taylor and Kat - yet. He's hoping this changes and there's still life left in both their CD's (which there is, I'm sure).

But on a different note - with regards to Kat (since I don't know the circumstances surrounding the making of Taylor's CD) - he might have been right to want Kat's first CD to be a Celine-type of album because he knew/knows what audience's want, after all he's been doing this for more years than Kat has been alive....

Daughtry stuck to his genre and gave his fans/audience exactly what they wanted. This is not exactly the case for Kat. By choosing to go 'off track' of what the fans might expect or want she took a risk. So - there's probably a little bit of "I told you so" (by Clive).  But, that doesn't take away from the fact that she is gaining a whole new audience and appealing to an entirely new group of people, which I think is being accomplished. The die-hard fans like us, will stick with her - she probably lost, however, the audience or group of semi-fans that voted for her, but don't care for the pop/r&b genre (like I've said before - everyone at my work - they do not like her CD because they don't like that kind of music).

Well, we are where we are and we all need to continue to support Kat's efforts by requesting, voting, buying her singles, CD, etc as much as we can. There will be many 'bumps' along the road of her career, this is just one of them. It's not a mistake, it's simply a bump in the road.

I hope and believe that Love STory WILL do it for her and that her road to success is just beginning.

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05/28/2007 1:28 PM Alert 
Posted By luv4llntkm on 05/28/2007 12:50 PM

Let's all focus our energies to get Love Story moving up the charts instead all this talk about Clive Davis. 

Kat has a misson for all her fans to get Love Story played over the airwaves and help sell more CDs.  She needs all our help to make Love Story successful!  So I urge all you to phone or email in your requests to your local stations and other stations to get Love Story played.  Remember each spin counts making movement up the chart faster.

KAT NEEDS US TO MAKE THINGS HAPPEN!!!



I can't speak for the rest of the people here, but I can do multiple things at once.  I can support Kat, and have lively discussions about all aspects of her journey.  Just by having a discussion is not going to make or break "Love Story" as a single.  I will decide how I devote my energies, and in what direction.
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Katharine Crazy
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Member Since 4/30/2007

05/28/2007 1:37 PM Alert 
no one denies that we all have free choice to do what we wish.  go for the multi-tasking.
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05/28/2007 2:54 PM Alert 
Sorry if I offended some of you with my post. I'm was just trying to rally the troop.

I look at the mediabase chart everyday and I see Love Story needing help right now.  I'm hoping this will change tomorrow and in the next few days/weeks and see the number of spins increase.  So that is my concern right now. 
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05/28/2007 3:03 PM Alert 
I don't think anybody was condescending to anyone else.  We are all free to express our opinions whatever they may be and sometimes these issues prompt healthy debate.  Rallying the troops is great and expressing one's views is also a good thing as well.  I don't think any of us are going to ignore helping Katharine as much as we can.  luv4lintkm, please don't refrain from posting anything you feel.
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05/28/2007 3:39 PM Alert 
Posted By zzyzx on 05/28/2007 3:03 PM
I don't think anybody was condescending to anyone else.  We are all free to express our opinions whatever they may be and sometimes these issues prompt healthy debate.  Rallying the troops is great and expressing one's views is also a good thing as well.  I don't think any of us are going to ignore helping Katharine as much as we can.  luv4lintkm, please don't refrain from posting anything you feel.


I heartily agree.
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05/28/2007 3:42 PM Alert 
Yes, LOVE STORY breaks tuesday, so now is the time to start the heavy load of requests and get it rolling.you made an excellent point luv4llntkm

Some people come into our lives and quickly go.Others stay for a while and leave footprints on our hearts and we are never the same. That my friends is Katharine McPhee
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05/28/2007 3:46 PM Alert 
Posted By nanhasmcpheever on 5/28/2007 1:03:26 PM
Subject: RE: Clive Davis and the CD
Message:

I'm trying to find some positive spin to put on this since everyone seems to have decided that Clive neglected and disrespected just about everyone but Daughtry

 

I think the positive spin on this is that Clive did not really "diss" Taylor and Kat, he simply said "maybe Love STory (and taylor's 2nd single) will do it for them". Meaning that their 1st singles didn't do it for them - but he did not say that.

He's flipping the bill - so he has a right to expect that the TOP 2 idols CD's would perform and sell. Without actually saying it on national TV, he simply stated he hopes that the next singles will do it for them (and him). You can't compare Kat/Taylor to Elliott/Paris because they were not the winner/runner-up and in the past idols that came in 3rd/5th did not get record contracts. Clive took a chance by giving Daughtry a CD and it paid off. That has not been the case with Taylor and Kat - yet. He's hoping this changes and there's still life left in both their CD's (which there is, I'm sure).

But on a different note - with regards to Kat (since I don't know the circumstances surrounding the making of Taylor's CD) - he might have been right to want Kat's first CD to be a Celine-type of album because he knew/knows what audience's want, after all he's been doing this for more years than Kat has been alive....

Daughtry stuck to his genre and gave his fans/audience exactly what they wanted. This is not exactly the case for Kat. By choosing to go 'off track' of what the fans might expect or want she took a risk. So - there's probably a little bit of "I told you so" (by Clive).  But, that doesn't take away from the fact that she is gaining a whole new audience and appealing to an entirely new group of people, which I think is being accomplished. The die-hard fans like us, will stick with her - she probably lost, however, the audience or group of semi-fans that voted for her, but don't care for the pop/r&b genre (like I've said before - everyone at my work - they do not like her CD because they don't like that kind of music).

Well, we are where we are and we all need to continue to support Kat's efforts by requesting, voting, buying her singles, CD, etc as much as we can. There will be many 'bumps' along the road of her career, this is just one of them. It's not a mistake, it's simply a bump in the road.

I hope and believe that Love STory WILL do it for her and that her road to success is just beginning.

 

 

very good point here that daughtry stayed in his genre and Kat took a calculated risk.


Some people come into our lives and quickly go.Others stay for a while and leave footprints on our hearts and we are never the same. That my friends is Katharine McPhee