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Subject: McPoetry Project Poem Thread

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Username: KatKrazy
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06/27/2006 12:44 AM	Alert
Dear Hawk, This is quite a fascinating piece. I hear what you are saying about trying to let the heart lead the way, but--for better or for worse--in most cases in order to speak to an audience, we must rely on some logical or narrative structure. I think your lofty and intense poetic ideas would benefit here from more of such a structure. I believe we need to have more of a sense of who is saying what and why. Why are certain phrases in quotations, the reader wants to know. Think of it this way: your poem is a beautiful outfit of clothing; you just need a body to dress it on. Here's my practical suggestion: Write out the major ideas of your poem in a short prose paragraph. Just write down in ordinary words what you most want to get across here. Then go back and see how you might be able to weave that story through the images you now have. I know it's not easy, but that's why you get the big bucks By the way, I see many religious images in the piece that I like a lot. Having a story structure will allow these references to stand out more clearly. Help the reader climb up to the heights that you are feeling. Best, Gary

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06/27/2006 1:05 AM	Alert
Dear willow, I know you plan to provide more of your beginning, but let me just say a couple things using your first four lines. In my opinion, what you might try is just the reverse of what I said to Hawk. You are telling a story--that is great. Finish telling it just like you are doing. Then go back and say to yourself: OK, this is my message. Now, how can I say the same things in ways that are a bit new and surprising? Here's a tiny, not so great example: saying "people would look up to you" could also be expressed as something like: men strained to catch your whisper, women saw a sister when you sang So I would say, keep working on your outline which is hard and critical...and then the harder part begins... Good luck and I look forward to seeing your work, Gary

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06/27/2006 3:32 AM	Alert
SHE'S GOT A WAY (by Billy Joel) She's got a way about her I don't know what it is But I know that I can't live without her She's got a way of pleasin' I don't know why it is But there doesn't have to be a reason anywhere She's got a smile that heals me I don't know what it is But I have to laugh when she reveals me She's got a way of talkin' I don't know why it is But it lifts me up when we are walkin' anywhere She comes to me when I'm feelin' down Inspires me without a sound She touches me and I get turned around She's got a way of showin' How I make her feel And I find the strength to keep on goin' She's got a light around her And ev'rywhere she goes a million Dreams of love surround her ev'rewhere

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06/27/2006 6:59 AM	Alert
Mr. Gary, I knew without having to even look it up, the verse in Ex. 3 is, "And the answered Moses, my name is I Am.". But no, this poem wasn't supposed to dvinate our Kat, "You are who you are." is supposed to mean, "You are you, and nothings gonna change that." "Searching for Blissful Unreality" is supposed to come out as, "searching for world I wish existed, but I know doesn't." If you look biblicaly, and even just look at the news, you can see that we are NOT a Godly earth, searching for the invisible, blissful, unreality, is basically, searching for God in a land that hates him so much. Cause wouldn't you agree, God's Mercy does seem unreal... "Dissension" is the exact word I intended to use here, in the Biblical sense(the only way I've ever heard it), it means intense quarelling. In this case, the line is intended to be read, "In a land filled with intense quarelling, and the shame associated with it." Traditonally(meaning, if you ever read any Emily Dickenson ever) you should know that "wheat and terror" is an analogy of running through wheat and getting 'whipped' by the little grains on their stalks, and as for the terror, in this case, it's synonimous(I KNOW that's spelled rong) with fear. There's fear in this life, it's the one emotion that we ALL know how to translate... In the case of my poem, the fields of wheat and terror is running through a life that's "nitpicking". Keeping one's flaws, also has a hidden meaning. All of us have faults, you do, I do, everyone on this board does, and I'm sure that none of them would call themselves perfect. Keeping one's flaws means, "Keeping one's flaws in check, controlling them". It gives a sense of understanding that I'm not perfect, but I strive to do the best I can, despite the flaws themselves(with God's help, this is ALL possible). My example for this poem as a FLAW was Kat's Bulemia. She was afflicted with the demon of understanding that she's not perfect for 7 years. That demon wasn't wrong, she's not perfect, but she dealt with it the wrong way, she tried to change it on her own(big mistake). But anyway, she still has to suffer from the affects of that Demon, it's still a flaw, she will always after to keep herself on track about her sel-image, therefore, she is concious of a problem of hers, and she's keeping in check, controlling it...there you go. Also, one other thing. The thing about Katharine McPhee being consistent is quite true. Katharine is always the same thing to me...Joy. She's also, consistently Gorgeous, loving, responsible, and well mannered. No matter when I see her, she always conveys as those things, and sometimes a few more. Therefore, she is consistent. One more thing, this is just an explanation of the poem, I'm not rationalizing it's value. I'll take it back and work on it some more, hopefully returning a better product. God Bless! Jesse

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06/27/2006 11:01 AM	Alert
Posted By Jesse.Whitehouse on 06/26/2006 9:27 AM Running through a field of wheat and terror You keep your flaws Shrouding your face, you hide, but you shine A Beacon to all proving consistency exists Despite evil, and hatred, and malice You prove consistent You are who you are And you are there. That stanza is outstanding, JW. The beacon to consistency of character and the examination of principles is really where I like to see poetry go. You really don't see enough of that type published in the modern sense. And, Gary--I'm really enjoying your poetry reading it back. Apologies for not giving too much input, but I've been occupied with other projects (yes, my real writing projects) and other things recently. But know that I appreciate the stance everybody's taking in their poetry. It examines Kat's depth of spirit and character; even hints of religiosity without making it obvious. That's all territory I love to explore when I've attempted to write free-verse poetry. I fully intend to write a poem very soon and post it here sometime in July. I'll probably delve into the near-spiritual qualities of artistic technique when it comes to how Kat's artistic mind works. Or, at least my own impressions of how I think it works. I'm always thinking of what more is there under a simple song and how the artist extracts something special out of it. And I think a lot of you have already conveyed a lot of that essence in some of your own poems. But, I'll hopefully add my own style to the proceedings. You know, a lot of these are general enough where you could attempt to get them published in a magazine. The top ones are usually hard to get into (don't I know it, New Yorker...the publisher of poetic garbage )--but there's a lot of other smaller lit mags that would still pay reasonably well if they publish yours. I've found, though, that poetry has become so subjective that it's almost impossible to get a large consensus on what makes a great poem. It almost makes poets have to end up expressing themselves elsewhere...as in sending it in a book to your favourite artist.

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06/27/2006 11:30 AM	Alert
Posted By Gregoriancant on 06/27/2006 11:01 AM Posted By Jesse.Whitehouse on 06/26/2006 9:27 AM Running through a field of wheat and terror You keep your flaws Shrouding your face, you hide, but you shine A Beacon to all proving consistency exists Despite evil, and hatred, and malice You prove consistent You are who you are And you are there. That stanza is outstanding, JW. The beacon to consistency of character and the examination of principles is really where I like to see poetry go. You really don't see enough of that type published in the modern sense. Thank you very much for your kind words! I'm in the process of working on this poem some more, reworking some of the words. This is actually my first ever free verse poem, I'm usually doing rhyming work for kids magazines. One thing though sir, if your going to submit a poem to a magazine, submit to one that doesn't take away your rights to the poem. And STAY AWAY FROM POETRY.COM!!!!!!!!!! They ar evil people there, they take your poems and leave you in the dust. breaths Okay, I'm done... Once again, thank you! Jesse

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06/27/2006 6:13 PM	Alert
Dear Jesse, Thanks for your detailed explanations . Please don't misunderstand me. I was not questioning at all whether strong meaning underlies your phrasing. I was raising questions about whether that meaning would be altogether clear to a reader. For example, the phrase "you are who you are" echos the biblical phrase "I am who I am" (or, I will be who I will be) in God's response to Moses. I didn't think you were making her divine, but some might take it that way (in conjunction e.g., with phrases about her replacing power and fear with love and peace). Same thing with certain phrases that I found potentially unclear--not that you didn't have a clear meaning in your mind. For example, thank you for explaining what "you keep your flaws" meant. I wouldn't have known that it meant "contain and surpass your flaws". (I love the Paul Simon lyric about this theme: "If I have weaknesses, don't let them blind me now".) Keep up the great work, Gary

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06/27/2006 10:13 PM	Alert
Posted By KatKrazy on 06/27/2006 12:44 AM Dear Hawk, This is quite a fascinating piece. I hear what you are saying about trying to let the heart lead the way, but--for better or for worse--in most cases in order to speak to an audience, we must rely on some logical or narrative structure. I think your lofty and intense poetic ideas would benefit here from more of such a structure. I believe we need to have more of a sense of who is saying what and why. Why are certain phrases in quotations, the reader wants to know. Think of it this way: your poem is a beautiful outfit of clothing; you just need a body to dress it on. Here's my practical suggestion: Write out the major ideas of your poem in a short prose paragraph. Just write down in ordinary words what you most want to get across here. Then go back and see how you might be able to weave that story through the images you now have. I know it's not easy, but that's why you get the big bucks By the way, I see many religious images in the piece that I like a lot. Having a story structure will allow these references to stand out more clearly. Help the reader climb up to the heights that you are feeling. Best, Gary Gary, thank you very much for your feedback, but I think you are confused of the poem's meaning. "The heart leading the way...definitely not what I was going for..." I guess that is my fault though. I find myself trapped trying to find "structure" in writing. It takes longer, and I lose interest quickly becuase it forces me to think or try too hard to be clever. I feel that if something doesn't come naturally than I probably would be better off not doing it (at least not in writing). It sounds like you can really help me though, and I really value your advice, but I have no idea what you just told me. Then go back and see how you might be able to weave that story through the images you now have. Huh? I'm not quite sure what you want me to change. I'm also lost on the religous images part too. If there are any there, I didn't intend for them because I'm not a religious person. Oh wait...I see. But those actually aren't references to God. Perhaps to the Goddess, Katharine Mcphee Maybe you would like me to actually write down what my inspiration was from the poem and then guide me along from there...in language my pee brain can comprehend.

"I think it was the summertime when I laid eyes on you. I didn't even know your name...The boy you never wanted just steals your heart..."--Kat McPhee, Love Story "4 walls and no you. The silence in this room is so loud...wow"--Kat McPhee, I Lost You "I didn't see the crash that burnt the bridge, didn't see the missile that sank my loveship down..."--Kat McPhee, Dangerous "Wanting you to be wanting me, no that ain't no way to be...You never were a friend of mine..."--Kat McPhee, Over It "No more lonely nights to hurt me, no more tears left to spare, no more reasons to be unhappy. You threw them all up in the air..."--Kat McPhee, Each Other "Your pedicure, white-tipped French. Your legs don't make no sense...Shoes like these make me hate flats..."--Kat McPhee, Open Toes

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06/27/2006 10:26 PM	Alert
Okay gang, I worked on this for a few days. Here's my entry: IT ALL STARTED WITH YOUR AUDITION COULDN'T WAIT TO SEE YOU ON YOUR MISSION WATCHIN' YOU TAKE THE TITLE OF AMERICAN IDOL YOU DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH I WAS WISHIN' EACH TUESDAY I'D BE HOME BY EIGHT SEE ALL DAY I JUST COULDN'T WAIT TO HEAR YOUR SWEET VOICE AND WATCH THOUSANDS REJOICE AND BY NINE I WAS FEELING GREAT RIGHT THEN I'D PICK UP THE PHONE AND VOTE MY FINGERS TO THE BONE I'D HOPE AND I'D PRAY THAT ON WEDNESDAY YOU WOULDN'T BE STANDING ALONE AT THE FINALE YOU LIT UP THE CROWD THE CHEERS AND APPLAUSE WERE SO LOUD THE WAY THAT YOU SHINED PROVED YOU WERE ONE OF A KIND AND IN THE END YOU MADE US PROUD NOW IT'S TIME TO SPREAD YOUR WINGS AHEAD OF YOU'S SO MANY THINGS AN ALBUM AFTER YOUR SINGLE CELEBRITIES WITH WHOM YOU'LL MINGLE SOAK UP ALL THE JOY THAT IT BRINGS THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT YOU ARE THE BEST AND I KNOW THAT WE ALL FEEL BLESSED CAUSE YOU HAVE A GIFT THAT GAVE US ALL A LIFT HERE'S WISHING YOU ONLY SUCCESS Ken

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06/27/2006 10:38 PM	Alert
That made me smile throughout Ken

"I think it was the summertime when I laid eyes on you. I didn't even know your name...The boy you never wanted just steals your heart..."--Kat McPhee, Love Story "4 walls and no you. The silence in this room is so loud...wow"--Kat McPhee, I Lost You "I didn't see the crash that burnt the bridge, didn't see the missile that sank my loveship down..."--Kat McPhee, Dangerous "Wanting you to be wanting me, no that ain't no way to be...You never were a friend of mine..."--Kat McPhee, Over It "No more lonely nights to hurt me, no more tears left to spare, no more reasons to be unhappy. You threw them all up in the air..."--Kat McPhee, Each Other "Your pedicure, white-tipped French. Your legs don't make no sense...Shoes like these make me hate flats..."--Kat McPhee, Open Toes

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06/27/2006 10:57 PM	Alert
Posted By NothlitHawk777 on 06/26/2006 12:21 PM So I finally finished mine. I know I said that before, but it's actually quite different than the first draft. My "inspiration" I guess would come from Kat's performance of The Voice Within. Not the actual performance of itself, just the philosophy on life in general that it presents. I think the song title embodies what poetry is about, listening to yourself. So when I set out to write this (like with anything I write), I try to do away with any rules on what I think poetry should be. This would account for my lack of rhyme or rhythm (if you find any I promis it was an accident). The important thing for me is that I find the perfect words to express an ultimate emotion. Whatever my mind thinks I write. So I asked myself "What has Kat's voice done for me?" And this is what I discovered, something I probably wouldn't have realized had this poetry project not been created. It's not a great poem because I try to stay away from description because I'm lost on how to do it. I commend those that do because it seems extremely difficult. Um...I hope you don't find it too confusing or too long or too corny or too cliche because unfortunately it's all of the above. I'm completely open to suggestion (especially on the title). Phantom Emotion “I am almost ready” Memories denied that were forever there Lend reason to that uncounted-for emotion That specter of ill-feeling Her nightmare has lost its roots And so she dangles We witness the ghost of past struggle Shrivel its optimistic host “I no longer believe” So time rests As she is forced to recover Yet finds nothing Save that artificial savior Refuge within the self “Dreams are gospel,” she says “Words are pointless…” “Reliance on others is futile…” So emotional guards once constricted Are deemed unmovable But intrudes a voice Watch as it seeps in unnoticed Pierces the fragile, the unbeknownst confusion Hear it complete that process rushed And save a life “It is done” Voice of invisible substance, mystic effect Fills a void for the lonely A balm for shallow healing I’ve felt it soar below my barrier of grief And force a lost heart to confront fears forgotten The aftermath that followed the ghost of mourning These things take time But I am no longer alone Dear Hawk, I'm sorry if I didn't expresss myself clearly or accurately. By the "heart leading" I meant putting down what you feel without worrying too much about structure. The religious images were words or phrases like: "no longer believe"..."savior"..."gospel"..."it is done"..."mystic"...just to mention a few In light of the poem you wrote, you obviously DON'T have a "pea brain" and, in fact, writing down for yourself your inspiration for the poem or its basic message is exactly what I had in mind. Then you could compare the prose version with the poetic version and see how the latter could be brought a little bit closer to the former in order to help the reader. Now, I think I'm getting your poem more. Probably with a few connecting phrases, transitions, and descriptions of setting it would all fall together. Be a LITTLE more explicit about the situations in which the people in the poem are acting. Tell us something about who and where the speaker is rather than relying only on quotation marks. IF, for example, her "nightmare" is bulimia, what about something like "her nightmare of consumption, rejection" or "nightmare of body's form and function" or many other ways, one of which would be right for you, but would give more clues about what is happening. Another example: when the quote is introduced "I no longer believe" it is hard to tell at which stage of Kat's story we are in. "Voice" saves her (I think), but does this involve the American Idol competition directly, or is it all happening inside Kat? You bring yourself in at the end (I think), and your own pain. Is it too painful to make reference to the type of pain it is? In my opinion (and others here may disagree), I would want to see you tie the striking imagery and language to more concrete situations and specific feelings. Right now there is a great deal of abstraction--this is NOT bad, but we can't always see what you are seeing, that which lies behind the language. Is this ANY more helpful? Seriously, in my view you are very talented. Gary

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06/28/2006 12:37 AM	Alert
Posted By KatKrazy on 06/27/2006 10:57 PM Dear Hawk, I'm sorry if I didn't expresss myself clearly or accurately. By the "heart leading" I meant putting down what you feel without worrying too much about structure. The religious images were words or phrases like: "no longer believe"..."savior"..."gospel"..."it is done"..."mystic"...just to mention a few In light of the poem you wrote, you obviously DON'T have a "pea brain" and, in fact, writing down for yourself your inspiration for the poem or its basic message is exactly what I had in mind. Then you could compare the prose version with the poetic version and see how the latter could be brought a little bit closer to the former in order to help the reader. Now, I think I'm getting your poem more. Probably with a few connecting phrases, transitions, and descriptions of setting it would all fall together. Be a LITTLE more explicit about the situations in which the people in the poem are acting. Tell us something about who and where the speaker is rather than relying only on quotation marks. IF, for example, her "nightmare" is bulimia, what about something like "her nightmare of consumption, rejection" or "nightmare of body's form and function" or many other ways, one of which would be right for you, but would give more clues about what is happening. Another example: when the quote is introduced "I no longer believe" it is hard to tell at which stage of Kat's story we are in. "Voice" saves her (I think), but does this involve the American Idol competition directly, or is it all happening inside Kat? You bring yourself in at the end (I think), and your own pain. Is it too painful to make reference to the type of pain it is? In my opinion (and others here may disagree), I would want to see you tie the striking imagery and language to more concrete situations and specific feelings. Right now there is a great deal of abstraction--this is NOT bad, but we can't always see what you are seeing, that which lies behind the language. Is this ANY more helpful? Seriously, in my view you are very talented. Gary Okay, I see what went wrong here...I forgot to point out that the poem is entirely personal. The ENTIRE thing is actually about myself (inspired by Kat) , and it is actually a true story. I'll give a runthrough of each line... “I am almost ready” Memories denied that were forever there Lend reason to that unaccounted-for emotion That specter of ill-feeling Her nightmare has lost its roots These first few lines can be summed up altogether. I, the poem's subject (if this makes it easier I'll speak in first person) have a constant battle with emotion. I feel depressed or spontaneously somber at times, though I'm not quite sure why. This is because I think I have healed when I truly have not. I've chosen to no longer dwell upon the bad memories and move on, but in doing so I don't eliminate my emotional state at that time. This accounts for the confusion. When I write that "her nightmare has lost its roots," I am saying that the source for this melancholy mood and the random bouts of depression are unknown because I have made them that way without knowing. And so she dangles We witness the ghost of past struggle Shrivel its optimistic host Pretty much continues in the same vein here. I'm kind of repeating myself actually. At this point I hang in a sort of limbo as I don't attempt to acknowledge what has been hurting, eating away at me. Part of me knows the problem, and this makes it all the worst, for it is just within my reach, but I cannot find it somehow. The frustration is damaging to a positive soul like mine. “I no longer believe” So time rests As she is forced to recover Yet finds nothing Save that artificial savior Refuge within the self “Dreams are gospel,” she says “Words are pointless…” “Reliance on others is futile…” So emotional guards once constricted Are deemed unmovable It is never a good thing when i confuse even myself...Anyway, what I think happens here is a bit of a chronology issue. What I explained in the first part above is not clear at all until this point. It explains the process of a rushed, "artificial" healer, this being myself (if that makes sense). At this point, I only put stock in what I believe. This is a bit of a climax as it exhibits my utter breakdown and disillusionment with reality in general. Since I believe I am healed, I deny that I am still hurting. But intrudes a voice Watch as it seeps in unnoticed Pierces the fragile, the unbeknownst confusion Hear it complete that process rushed And save a life “It is done” Voice of invisible substance, mystic effect Fills a void for the lonely A balm for shallow healing I’ve felt it soar below my barrier of grief And force a lost heart to confront fears forgotten The aftermath that followed the ghost of mourning These things take time But I am no longer alone This is where my reference to Kat comes in. She is the voice. Metaphorically speaking, there is a hollow area in my "heart" (god that's cheesy) that explains why I don't feel altogether stable. For some reason, her voice has freed me of sorts, filled that space and forced me to come out of my shell to address feelings I wasn't allowing myself reach, to rediscover those memories that i find too painful to recall. In short, she sort of saved my sanity and helped release some insecurity issues. As for the quotes...These are things I've told myself at different points in time of this experience but never really listened to. Clues that I didn't pay any attention. The first one comes right before that first false declaration of "healing," where I was almost "there." "I no longer believe" comes at a time when I am confused, but I deny that I am because I think I know best (remember that these quotes are sort of like supressed feelings). The next three seem pretty self-explanatory right? The last one, I guess, is pretty obvious also. I'm pretty sure there are tons of clarity issues I have yet to touch upon, but hopefully i got through most of them. Okay, I'm really tired, but before I go to bed , I really want to thank you for helping me with this, and you are helping. I know i haven't touched on yet a few of the things that you addressed, but I will get to them shortly. I really am grateful because the message of this poem means a lot to me, and I hope that I can get it as best I can before Kat reads it. (Please for give any vagueness I have at the moment. My eyes are drooping furiously) Jasmine (figured I'd start putting my real name)

"I think it was the summertime when I laid eyes on you. I didn't even know your name...The boy you never wanted just steals your heart..."--Kat McPhee, Love Story "4 walls and no you. The silence in this room is so loud...wow"--Kat McPhee, I Lost You "I didn't see the crash that burnt the bridge, didn't see the missile that sank my loveship down..."--Kat McPhee, Dangerous "Wanting you to be wanting me, no that ain't no way to be...You never were a friend of mine..."--Kat McPhee, Over It "No more lonely nights to hurt me, no more tears left to spare, no more reasons to be unhappy. You threw them all up in the air..."--Kat McPhee, Each Other "Your pedicure, white-tipped French. Your legs don't make no sense...Shoes like these make me hate flats..."--Kat McPhee, Open Toes

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06/28/2006 12:53 AM	Alert
Dear Jasmine, Yes, it's late for me too, but I just wanted to begin a response. Thank you for so graciously and bravely sharing part of what's behind the poem. Now things are very clear and I think it will be relatively easy for you to touch up the poem in a way that would allow someone to trace the main story line, including consistently using the first person about yourself. By the way, just on the technical side, I prefer using italics in a poem to indicate your internal thoughts rather than quotation marks. (I also thought it would be clever to try: "Words are pointless, she says." Especially in a word-poem.) To be continued... Gary

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06/28/2006 7:12 AM	Alert
Hey Ken, A little tip about poetry that my writing instructor once shared, about 85% of all the "that's" in writing can be eliminated to make a clearer product. E.G. I knew that you 'd be here... E.G.2. I knew you'd be here Ones' clearere than the other. I love your poem BTW>>>> Jesse

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06/28/2006 8:29 AM	Alert
Here is my poem. now i am not a writer..i just wrote what came to mind and spell checked it :-) If these are really going to be given to Kat i would like to add a poem as well. I just love that girl. B I saw it. Some didn’t but I did. I saw in your heart. It’s a beautiful thing when that happens. Voting like crazy because you deserved it. You should be a star. You’re sweetness, your cuteness, your laugh, and your cry. The way you moved your father to tears so often. His love for you must be amazing. I must say. That gesture moved me as well. Now I know why. You’re struggles, your heartache, your tears, and your joy. And the question that hangs in my head. How can a girl so wonderful think herself anything but? Your voice, your smile, that personality, you are incredible I hope everyone can see that now. But if they can’t, it’s you and me. Knowing that I saw what perhaps you couldn’t even see yourself. You are Astonishing. You are the One.

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06/28/2006 8:46 AM	Alert
Dear Jesse, I'm guessing that Ken put in many of those "that's" becuase of his sense of meter in this poem; the syllable count is important for what he's doing, but you make a good grammatical point! On that note, Ken--a few of the lines could be smoothed out just a touch to fit your meter more: One example: You have-- I'd hope and I'd pray That on Wednesday With just a slight change it reads more smoothly I'd hope and I'd pray That on this Wednesday (OR: That the very next day) Fun poem! And sweet. Gary

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Member Since 3/30/2006

06/28/2006 9:07 AM	Alert
Thanks Hawk, Jesse and Gary, Hawk, that was really nice of you to say. Jesse, normally I think you would be right about the "that's" but as Gary said, the reason I put so many "that's in is for the timing in the meters but thanks for your kind words. Gary, I do hear what you're saying about "That on this Wednesday" but when I say the verse over and over to myself I feel that it is tighter to just say "That on Wednesday" as "That on this Wednesday" sounds a bit busier. In essence it's just a matter of the emphasis either put on "That" in mine versus "On" in yours but again it's just a matter of taste there's no right and wrong. I really appreciate your kind words as well. By the way when the poems get printed to send to Kat, how are we going to hand sign them, do we print them out ourselves and send them. Ken