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Forums > All about Katharine > Katharine Media
Subject: Help: I have Grove vid on DVR.
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Username: differentlife
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12/18/2006 11:32 PM Alert 
The first question, Shady, is can you view the test MPGs in Windows Media Player, not Media Player Classic? If you can't, then there is almost no chance Movie Maker will be able to convert the MPG because it uses the same Directshow filters as WMP.

The following is provided under the assumption that you CAN open the MPGs and see and hear test_mpg_ac3.mpg

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I got my hands on Movie Maker so I've tested a whole bunch of things.

Here are the steps I recommend:
First, install AC3filter, as noted above.

1. In Movie Maker, "Import video" and choose the test_mpg_ac3.mpg from before.
2. Take note of all filters with "MPEG" in the name:
    Tools > Options > Compatibility
    Uncheck all filters
3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 until the MPEG entries stay the same. Each time you get an error, Windows tries to add more filters that it can find on your computer. At some point, it runs out of choices and the list will be unchanged. (It took me 3-4 imports to fully populate the list)
4. Now that the list of MPEG entries under "Compatibility" stays the same, uncheck all

5. Keep AC3 filter checked throughout the testing below.

For the following, only pay attention to the entries with "MPEG" in the name. Leave the other filters unchecked.
6. Recheck 1 and only 1 "set" of MPEG filters. A "set" shares the same manufacturer, for example, "ATI" or "Pinnacle" or "Cyberlink" or "Roxio" or ...
7. Reimport the video again. This is important.
8. Press the Play button in the preview on the right side of Movie Maker
9. If you can see and hear the video, stop and take note of the filters. These are the ones you should use for importing MPEG-2 videos that you create from TS. You might want to recheckmark the NON-MPEG filters for when you want to import AVIs or other types of videos. OK, that's it. You can now save the video as WMV, which I'll describe in another post later.
10. However, if you can only hear the audio, then go back to step 6 and choose a different set of MPEG filters.

Hopefully, you'll have success at one point. But if none of your current filters work, then:
11. You'll need to install another MPEG-2 filter. Some come with DVD programs that you might have on your computer, but all of yours obviously didn't work since you're at this step.

There's one more thing to try, but it's kind of a last resort thing.  If nothing worked then post and I'll say what this last resort is.

Do I get a prize for greatest number of massive posts in a thread?
Username: CRB
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12/19/2006 12:06 AM Alert 
Isn't there another freeware MPEG processing/editing/converting program out on the Internet besides this Microsoft creation, diff?


And on the question about the prize, I have not just a prize but a surprise a free download of an mp3.

For Diff's Prize (right click and save target as)
Username: differentlife
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12/19/2006 12:24 AM Alert 
If you're able to open your MPG (made from the TS) in Movie Maker, and you're able to see and hear it in the preview window,

then you're ready to save it as a WMV file.

(The links are to screenshots of some steps. Not really needed)

Click "Show Timeline" in bottom left
02-ShowTimeline.gif

Drag the MPG that has both the video+audio onto the timeline, on the Video line
03-DragOntoTimeline.gif

Click "Save to My computer" on left, under "Finish Movie"
04-SaveToMyComputer.gif

The Save Movie Wizard starts. Enter Filename and where to save
05-SaveMovieWizard_FilenameLocation.gif

Click "Show more choices" and "Other settings
06-Wizard_ChooseMoreChoices.gif

Set High quality video (large) for SDTV. For HDTV? I dunno
07-HighQualityVideoLarge.gif

Save and Finish
08-SavingProgress.gif

Ends up ~12MB per minute of video? Audio is soft because the AC3 is soft and not normalized by MM
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12/19/2006 12:31 AM Alert 
Posted By CRB on 12/19/2006 12:06 AM
Isn't there another freeware MPEG processing/editing/converting program out on the Internet besides this Microsoft creation, diff?


And on the question about the prize, I have not just a prize but a surprise a free download of an mp3.

For Diff's Prize (right click and save target as)


why, I don't know what to say about that prize. OK, I lie. I know what to say, but I won't.

MPEG2 to AVI? I guess there must be, but I was going for what I thought would be the easiest way. Now, I assume you don't mean the way I do things, which involves about 10 other pieces of software and script files? I already hurt BigShady's brain a few days ago. I couldn't take the guilt of what would happen if I got into my TS to AVI procedure.

I could, though.  just for fun.

I guess I'll do some research on other freeware...
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12/19/2006 1:51 AM Alert 

Unfortunately I had some important last minute business to tend to today and I had nary a second to devote to this.  I swear, diff will have his cap up before I do.

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12/19/2006 10:12 PM Alert 
Posted By differentlife on 12/18/2006 12:10 AM
^^^ Ooh, ooh!!
(crossing fingers)

Also BigShady, if you need AC3filter:
Go to ac3filter.net

Download and install the latest exe
Run AC3filter Config in the Start Menu, or Control Panel AC3filter for older versions
Under the System tab: "Use AC3 filter for:" AC3 only. Uncheck the others



I'm stuck on this part.  How do I "run ac3filter config"?

My "Grove" mpg opens in WMP but it's choppy, both vid and aud.

Also, I tried importing the "test_mpg_ac3" into MM a few times and the filters never changed from the original 2 that were there.  They are: "CyberLink Video/SP Decoder DELL 5.3" and "DivX Demux".

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12/20/2006 12:28 AM Alert 
Posted By Bigshady on 12/19/2006 10:12 PM
Posted By differentlife on 12/18/2006 12:10 AM
^^^ Ooh, ooh!!
(crossing fingers)

Also BigShady, if you need AC3filter:
Go to ac3filter.net

Download and install the latest exe
Run AC3filter Config in the Start Menu, or Control Panel AC3filter for older versions
Under the System tab: "Use AC3 filter for:" AC3 only. Uncheck the others



I'm stuck on this part.  How do I "run ac3filter config"?

My "Grove" mpg opens in WMP but it's choppy, both vid and aud.

Also, I tried importing the "test_mpg_ac3" into MM a few times and the filters never changed from the original 2 that were there.  They are: "CyberLink Video/SP Decoder DELL 5.3" and "DivX Demux".


After you install AC3filter, you should be able to go to Start Menu > AC3filter > AC3filter config
Then, in the Properties window that opens (press OK when you get  a warning), go to the System tab and check only "AC3" under "Use AC3 filter for.."

If you haven't installed AC3filter yet:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=66022&package_id=63808

You get to a list of "file releases"
Scroll down to ac3filter_1_11.exe and click to start downloading
If you have problems downloading, or if you trust me (personally, I wouldn't), then you can get the installer here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/ekqshs

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You said the MPG plays choppy in WMP. A little surprising since the file is just ordinary standard definition. Movie Maker is hopeless in opening your MPG, is that right?

So here's the "last resort" I was talking about yesterday, if nothing else worked:
You can install a free MPEG2 filter.

HOWEVER, you're going to have to accept all responsibility for anything that happens to your computer. seriously.

It installed and worked fine on my computer, and MovieMaker could use it to convert MPGs. But video filters are notorious for being peculiar to each individual computer, usually because the many filters or codecs on a computer sometimes just don't get along together.

If you decide to look into this "GPL" MPEG2 filter that worked for me with MovieMaker, it's described at Videohelp.com:
http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=GPL_MPEG-1_2_Decoder

(To help you weigh things, I'll tell you that I'm going to eventually look into a program that claims to do what you need: convert MPEG or TS to a more compressed AVI (XviD). See the last section in this post. Bottom line is, if this other "avi.net" program works, you won't need the GPL MPEG2 filter)

What's that you say? You want to accept the risk and install the MPEG2 filter?

OK, then you might want to set another System Restore point and backup all your files (!)

The download is here:
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=98765&package_id=105790

Scroll down to:
MpegDecoder012.msi

Click to download and install the msi installer file

If you have problems downloading, or if you trust me (personally, I wouldn't), then you can get the same  installer here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/xfyczt

After it's installed:

Quit MovieMaker, if it's running
Run MovieMaker
Uncheck all the MPEG filters under Compatibility
Import the test MPG into MovieMaker
If necessary, checkmark only AC3filter and the GPL MPEG filter
Reimport the MPG

You should hopefully now be able to proceed on to the third post on this page and convert the MPG to WMV

---------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE to anyone interested in free MPG to AVI conversion
Eventually, I'm going to check out a program called "avi.net" that sounds like it can go from MPG to XviD AVI (basically, what I'm doing) in an easy to use way. But I don't really want to risk installing it on my computer right now, especially with Home for the Holidays and The Grove coming up in a few days.

Would someone else care to try out "avi.net"? It's listed at videohelp.com:
   http://www.videohelp.com/tools?tool=avi.NET
The download page is here:
   http://www.dvduk.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/downloads.htm

Looks like you need to download and install 2 things:
   avi.NET v2.2.0.0
   avi.NET support package
And it requires Microsoft's .NET 2.0
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=0856eacb-4362-4b0d-8edd-aab15c5e04f5&displaylang=en
Be sure to check Windows Update for updates for .NET if you install it.
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12/20/2006 8:57 PM Alert 
Posted By differentlife on 12/20/2006 12:28 AM

HOWEVER, you're going to have to accept all responsibility for anything that happens to your computer. seriously.


Ok, so what can happen?  Why is this so risky?
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12/20/2006 9:19 PM Alert 
OK, I took avi.NET out for a spin. It's not bad. Very simple to use.

AVI.NET
A program that will convert MPG2 files (yes, supposedly even the raw captured TS file!) directly to AVI with the absolute minimum of hassle. Interested? I threw together yet another How To guide.

Using AVI.NET to convert MPEG-2 videos to AVI

"MPEG-2 videos" includes TS files
AVI = XviD MPEG-4 video

Summary
AVI.NET appears to be a way to convert MPEG-2 files, including TS files, into AVI files. Conversion can be done in just this one program. Potentially very very easy to use.

This software hopefully replaces the procedure you used before: DGindex, delaycut, TMPGenc

You would simply open the TS, choose your settings, and save as AVI. This TS conversion hasn't been tested yet, but for an MPG to AVI conversion, it works!

Software needed
Microsoft .NET Framework 2
   Download from Microsoft at: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=0856eacb-4362-4b0d-8edd-aab15c5e04f5&displaylang=en
   Install it
Microsoft updates for .NET Framework 2
   Go to Windows Update and install any critical updates for .NET framework

AVI.NET: This installs the base program
   Download from:   http://www.dvduk.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/downloads.htm
   Download "avi.NET v2.2.0.0 - released 18th September 2006" or the latest
   Install it
AVI.NET support files:
   Download from:   http://www.dvduk.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/downloads.htm
   Download "avi.NET support package - released 2006" or the latest
   Uninstall XviD using Add/Remove Programs, if it's there. The latest XviD 1.1.2 does NOT work with avi.NET.
      Even though it won't say to reboot, you should reboot
      Then, run the XviD 1.1.0 installer that is included in these support files.
      It must be version 1.1.0 or you will have problems (for example, the output AVI will be poor quality no matter the settings)
      I guess whenever AVI.NET is updated, the author will update the XviD installer
   Install the included VobSub and AVISynth which are also inside the ZIP you downloaded.
AVI.NET userguide webpage:  http://www.dvduk.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/avinet.htm
   Use web browser to save "complete webpage"

XviD codec
   Download from http://www.koepi.org here:
      http://www.koepi.org/XviD-1.1.2-01112006.exe
   Install. When asked "Decoding Options:" you can uncheck the box if you have the DivX codec already installed.

Summary on using AVI.NET
Consult the online userguide for details

Only the blue parts below are essential reading.
The rest is just informative

The following are just general recommendations for some hypothetical "average" video. You can tweak some settings as you want to increase quality, decrease filesize, ...
Run avi.net

File Input-Output tab
Press "IN"
Choose the video (mpg, ts, ...)
The program will start indexing (using its own copy of DGIndex)
   During this time, you will get a new folder where your video resides. There you will find the demuxed audio, usually AC3, and the D2V index file
The movie will then start to play/preview. Don't worry if the audio and video are out of sync during the preview.
     Pausing can be done with the button to the right of the + button in the upper right corner
The numbers along the top (480, 560, 640, 720...) indicate the horizontal dimensions. Choose one or leave at the default that is already selected. Full size SDTV will be 640. The raw full size HDTV will be either 1920 horizontal or 1280 horizontal. If AVI.NET offers numbers larger than 720, then you can try them for HDTV, but be warned the conversion might take very very long, and the final size might be very very big. If 720 is the largest number that you can choose even for HDTV, then choose it and then I guess avi.NET will resize HDTV down to this smaller size.

Audio & Video tab
Check "Keep Original Audio" to keep the audio in its current format (usually AC3). Or uncheck to convert to MP3. MP3 is fine if the audio starts off as "2_0ch" AC3 (read the line above to see what the audio is), but not a good idea if audio is "3_2ch". Note the MP3 audio seems to end up 128kbps CBR and can't be changed, which many would say is NOT very good quality for music. Personally, for high quality music I would keep original AC3 audio and ask the viewer to view the movie with MPC or VLC, or they can install AC3filter if they insist on using WMP. I think the end quality is worth the slight inconvenience. However, expect several people to complain that they can't hear the audio.

Uncheck "Single Pass Quant" or else an inferior compression will be done. However, if you want to significantly shorten the time it takes to compress, checkmark this but the quality may suffer.

For the following discussion, remember that
high bitrate = high quality = big files (high-high-high)
low bitrate = low quality = small files (low-low-low)

"Force Video Bitrate" is recommended. Try 3000 for 640x480 SDTV video or 720x400. (3000 was used by Vinman in his caps)
   Set the desired maximum bitrate that will be used. When you set a bitrate, you must press RETURN to accept the value. Something like 2500-3000 will ensure that most fast motion parts of the video don't end up losing quality. This 2500-3000 range is for 640x480 video.
   However, this bitrate might have to be higher for HDTV caps if you keep the resolution big, like 960x540 or bigger (I don't know if you'll even be able to choose this big in avi.NET, though). If you want to ensure maximum quality without any care for filesize, set the forced bitrate high (4000 or whatever is the max possible). However, the file size might be pretty big. Here are the file sizes for a particular bitrate

Bitrate (kbps) > filesize
4000 > ~32MB/min of video
3000 > ~24MB/min
2000 > ~16MB/min (Quality will show some signs of degradation at this bitrate.)

Options tab
Checkmark "Decomb Deinterlacing Filter" for all interlaced sources. The only noninterlaced source you are likely to have from TV is 720p HDTV. Fox-HD and ABC-HD are 720p. CBS-HD and NBC-HD are 1080i (interlaced). If you get an MPG from the web, it might be noninterlaced too.

Try without checkmarks next to all the other options on this tab. If you see noisy lines at the top or bottom of the video in the preview, you can crop them out using the appropriate arrow button. For example, to crop some of the top of the video because you have noise there, press the uppermost arrow. The button will crop 4 lines from the appropriate edge. Unfortunately, it seems to take a very long time after each button press.

Final steps
Go to the Audio&Video tab
Press OUT to change the output AVI filename, if desired.
Press Add job
Press Start
Take note of any errors in the progress window on the right.
   The encoding rate will depend on your CPU, and what filters you chose to use.
   How long does it take? For SDTV, it seems like ~3-4X the length of the video for a decent speed computer. Expect your computer to be less responsive while the encoding is being done since encoding is CPU intensive. For very long encodes (1 hour show), set it, have a meal, coffee, stroll, sleep, ... There is a checkbox for "Shutdown PC" option!
Check your output AVI for audio-video sync or other possible problems.



Optional tweakable settings
Audio&video tab: If you must control the filesize, use the pulldown box. However, some fast motion parts of the video might suffer in quality. You can set a custom size, in megabytes, by entering a value and then pressing RETURN.
Options tab: "Advanced Analysis" might lead to unviewable videos when played on some standalone DVD-AVI playing machines. It is also slower to encode, but the quality might be better. You'll have to try to see.
"Sharpening" or "Smoothing" might lead to video artifacts in some places. However, it can lead to better looking pictures. It's subjective. Probably not required for high quality caps like you have.
"Remove .TEMP" will get rid of the folder containing the D2V and the AC3 audio files. If you want to keep the AC3 file to make audio-only MP3s, you should keep the .TEMP folder by unchecking this option. The AC3 audio is useful

Caveats
For HDTV, I think the output framerate will be the same as the source, which is 60fps for 720p HDTV caps. Slower or even midspeed computers might choke. But then, the viewer should be using MPC or VLC, not WMP. If they use MPC or VLC, midspeed computers might get away with viewing them smoothly.

For HDTV, the maximum bitrate (4000) might not be good enough. You'll have to try it and see the result.

MP3 audio seems to be fixed at 128kbps CBR. Not the greatest for music IMO. From his webpage, the author apparently has an irrational hatred for VBR. meh

Some TS files give out-of-sync audio/video in the standalone DGIndex. I suspect the same will happen with this program, since avi.net uses DGIndex under the hood. The workarounds I end up using can't be used with this program because I can't get under the hood enough.

What to do with TS files that have problems with audio-video sync?
Option 1: Use Videoredo to open the TS, then save as MPG. Try converting this MPG in avi.net.
Option 2: Open TS wth HDTVtoMPEG2. Without editing it, resave as MPG. Try converting this MPG in avi.net.
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12/20/2006 9:24 PM Alert 
Okay, diff with that post you officially get the award for the most "books" within a single thread. Let's hope your prize is Shady being able to pull this off.

Good luck Shady.
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12/20/2006 11:32 PM Alert 
  Dude, I didn't realize this was gonna be so involved.  I hope you don't mind doing all this.
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12/21/2006 12:24 AM Alert 
I'm becoming quite the prolific poster. In the most horrible way imaginable.

Actually Big Guy, I think it should take like 10-30 minutes for the download and installation and then ~3-4 minutes per minute of MPG video to convert to AVI.

Good luck!
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12/21/2006 12:51 AM Alert 

I hope it was worth your trouble.  Regardless, it was worth it for me.  I've been wanting to be able to cap stuff for a long time, and now thanks to you I can.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/a83mcp
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12/21/2006 1:08 AM Alert 
oh, wow that went from 0 to 60 in no time at all!

You should make a new thread, it's certainly most clearly worthy! The new gold standard!

btw were you planning on making an MP3 or do you want me to? This audio is as good as it's going to get. period.

ah this is fantastic. What great news to end the night on. Congrats BigShady! And any questions on future capping and I'll try my best to answer.
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12/21/2006 1:18 AM