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Forums > All about Katharine > Katharine Media
Subject: Help: I have Grove vid on DVR.
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Username: Bigshady
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12/05/2006 3:11 PM Alert 

Sorry this is late, but I've been sick with the flu since Satruday night .  I was well enough last night to make a trip to Radio Shack and get a USB cable ($40, ).  Now I'm gonna need some help getting this Grove video uploaded if you guys want it any time soon.

I plugged in the USB cable expecting for something to pop up and say "new hardware detected", but nothing.  So far bad..off to a bad start.  Then after a few minutes the installer wizard pops up outta nowhere, but when I tried letting it search for the appropriate software to install the new hardware, no dice.

So that's where I'm at now.  Any suggestions??
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12/05/2006 3:22 PM Alert 
Glad you have this and lots of peopl are waiting for it. Sorry but this is beyond my knowledge, I don't even have TV. Why not ask Diff over in his forum in media, I bet he can help.
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12/05/2006 3:30 PM Alert 
I mentioned it in one of the Grove threads last night, but I thought I should go ahead and start a new thread so it wouldn't go unnoticed for too long. I figured diff or CRB could probably walk me through the process. I'm at work right now, but I'll be home in 2hrs so I can start working on it then with any new info I can get between now and then.
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12/05/2006 9:01 PM Alert 
I will assume when you say DVR then you are talking about one of these situations:

( A) satellite receiver with a built in hard drive recorder.  I don't believe that any Dish Network or Direct TV units  have a digital out, which means the only way to get it out of that box is by convertining to analog and moving it that way.  The question is to where?

(B.)  A hard drive recorder with our without at DVD recorder built in.  These are still relatively rare and pricey and I know of no model that has a DTV tuner built in so again analog but getting it out is easy with a DVD burner in the box and just like (A) if it is just a recorder without a digital out and again what to do with the analog once you have it.

(C.)  A digital cable box with a digital ( almost all are Firewire) output that leaves the content in the digital realm and a computer  with a corresponding  input (and a bunch of hard drive space)  to dump it onto.

So you bought a USB cable.  Do you know for a fact that your  DVR has a way to tranfer via USB?  It  would be a strange box if it did.   If you have the manual for the box you could check that for information on how to output a digital signal via USB.

I don't have cable (I've go Dish, BTW), but if you do in fact have a digital cable box with an active Firewire port  then it should be possible to transfer it to a computer.  I believe it would come off the hard drive as MPEG 2 video and a full hour, figure 100MB per minute,  you'd be looking at  big file.  And then you've got to be able to edit MPEG video or convert it to something else and then  edit it....huge task.

If you have a computer that has audio and video(preferably S-video) analog inputs  you could move just the parts you want   in analog assuming you have the software to deal with it.   You likely would know if you have these because your computer would be a "multimedia" computer, lots of computer do not have analog A/V inputs....likely most of them do not.

Shady, my suggestion at this point, assuming that you have space on your DVR, would be to sit tight with that program right where it is.  There is potential there to get perhaps  the best version of that Kat performance we have seen yet,  but it likely would not be easy to do given the situation.  If nobody pops  up with real nice cap of Kats song then we can take a stab at trying to get that off.

Or if you are gung ho and really want to give it a shot then I'll need to know which of the above scenarios we are looking at.

 I'm hoping that as this syndicated special is broadcast in different markets somebody with a DVD recorder, or a digital cable box and some knowhow,  will just record it and that would be the easiest way.
Username: Bigshady
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12/05/2006 9:20 PM Alert 
C) Digital cable box. I didn't know if a USB cable would work. I just thought I'd try something and see what happens. I don't know if my computer is a mulitmedia one, so I'm guessing it's probably not.

I have space so I can hold on to this recording for now. I'd eventually like to be able to upload and share vids, but if I'm not setup to do so without a major undertaking, I'll just leave it up to the pros.
Username: CRB
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12/05/2006 9:36 PM Alert 
If you have a digiital box with an active digital out then we might have something potentially really good here and it would be worth looking into. Do you have a model number for the box and manufacterer info. This is an HD box? Or standard definition? I will go look around on some AV forums for more info on what needs to be done then. For now sit tight and I'll do some research.
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12/05/2006 9:44 PM Alert 
It's an HD box. Motorola DCT6416 III.
Username: differentlife
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12/05/2006 10:00 PM Alert 
Absolutely I'm willing to help you! I've never heard of the USB ports being used. It might be possible, but I don't know.

To help, it would be useful to know:
Your version of Windows: Control Panel > System > General. Under "System:" it gives the version and Service pack

Your cable box make and model. Like Motorola DCT6412 or Scientific Atlanta ___. My Motorola model number is listed on the bottom of the box. Here's a pic of one of the DVR Motorola boxes:

Motorola DCT6412:
http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/images/dct6412_bigview_1.jpg
http://broadband.motorola.com/dvr/images/dct6412_back.jpg

Basically, I would be able to give exact details for how to get it from the DVR for Windows XP, hopefully Service Pack 2, plus certain Motorola or Scientific Atlanta cable boxes. Possibly other boxes too. The box would need to have Firewire ports. If it's fairly new (probably all DVRs) it should have active Firewire ports so I don't think that will be a problem. Also I think a Mac with OS X would be very easy to setup too.

The Firewire ports look like the one on the right side of this pic:
http://www.coolnerds.com/Newbies/Ports/ports03.gif

Once you get this working, you'll love it!
Username: CRB
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12/05/2006 10:12 PM Alert 
The 6416 is just the 6412 with a larger hard drive. You can use all the technical information about the 6412.
Username: Bigshady
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12/05/2006 10:15 PM Alert 

Ok, I have Windows XP - Home, Service Pack 2.  And I have the firewire hookups (but not the cable, yet).

I mentioned above the model # DCT6416 III, the bottom of the box says DCT6416/2300.
Username: Katcrazy2006
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12/05/2006 10:47 PM Alert 

Hey Video Gurus -

I researched this a bit and you can't record via USB but you CAN record to your PC via the firewire with Mark's DVR. It's a little annoying, in that you have to play the program on the dvr while it is recorded on the PC. I will try to locate some more detailed instructions.

Bye for now, Teilah
Username: Katcrazy2006
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12/05/2006 10:59 PM Alert 
How TO record via 1394/Firewire to WindowsXP now with MCE support - This method should work for most 1394/Firewire enabled tuners -

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=403695
Username: differentlife
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12/05/2006 11:09 PM Alert 
Let me collect the information on the software you need.

I bought the cable and Firewire card from Newegg. I use a 15 ft cable from the box to my PC. I don't know what signal loss might occur with a longer cable but mine hasn't given an error yet.

My hardware:
Firewire cable: 15ft generic 6-pin to 6-pin Firewire cable, Newegg part N82E16815999007, $7.99
Add-on Firewire card: Koutech Firewire card Model KW-582V2, Newegg part N82E16815103103, $20.99

You can get firewire cards cheaper, but I bought this one because it was compliant with a lot of standards. It's important for your card to be OHCI compliant, I hear. I can't complain about this card. I plugged it in, powered up, it was recognized and drivers installed automatically.

And that's basically all the hardware I had to buy. All the software and the cable box drivers are free. I'll post the links soon.
Username: Katfan100
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12/06/2006 4:56 AM Alert 

Wow,
All this expert tech help reminds me of a control tower guiding a stricken plane into land.

Good luck to Bigshady and thanks for going to all this trouble for us.

=^.^="The Kat Pack Rock's...Oh Yeah!!!!"=^.^= tm Kim

http://www.myspace.com/katfan100
Username: Bigshady
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12/06/2006 1:58 PM Alert 
Posted By differentlife on 12/05/2006 11:09 PM
Let me collect the information on the software you need.

I bought the cable and Firewire card from Newegg. I use a 15 ft cable from the box to my PC. I don't know what signal loss might occur with a longer cable but mine hasn't given an error yet.

My hardware:
Firewire cable: 15ft generic 6-pin to 6-pin Firewire cable, Newegg part N82E16815999007, $7.99
Add-on Firewire card: Koutech Firewire card Model KW-582V2, Newegg part N82E16815103103, $20.99

You can get firewire cards cheaper, but I bought this one because it was compliant with a lot of standards. It's important for your card to be OHCI compliant, I hear. I can't complain about this card. I plugged it in, powered up, it was recognized and drivers installed automatically.

And that's basically all the hardware I had to buy. All the software and the cable box drivers are free. I'll post the links soon.


I'm looking at newegg.com now.  What's the diff (no pun intended ) between 6-pin, 9-pin cables, etc.  If the 9-9pin is better I'd just assume spend the extra couple of bucks and get that one if it's all the same otherwise.  It doesn't have to be very long the way I have things setup.  This is the one I'm looking at, N82E16812149119.  I'm gonna go ahead and stick with the Firewire card you suggested.
Username: CRB
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12/06/2006 4:22 PM Alert 
Posted By Bigshady on 12/06/2006 1:58 PM
Posted By differentlife on 12/05/2006 11:09 PM
Let me collect the information on the software you need.

I bought the cable and Firewire card from Newegg. I use a 15 ft cable from the box to my PC. I don't know what signal loss might occur with a longer cable but mine hasn't given an error yet.

My hardware:
Firewire cable: 15ft generic 6-pin to 6-pin Firewire cable, Newegg part N82E16815999007, $7.99
Add-on Firewire card: Koutech Firewire card Model KW-582V2, Newegg part N82E16815103103, $20.99

You can get firewire cards cheaper, but I bought this one because it was compliant with a lot of standards. It's important for your card to be OHCI compliant, I hear. I can't complain about this card. I plugged it in, powered up, it was recognized and drivers installed automatically.

And that's basically all the hardware I had to buy. All the software and the cable box drivers are free. I'll post the links soon.


I'm looking at newegg.com now.  What's the diff (no pun intended ) between 6-pin, 9-pin cables, etc.  If the 9-9pin is better I'd just assume spend the extra couple of bucks and get that one if it's all the same otherwise.  It doesn't have to be very long the way I have things setup.  This is the one I'm looking at, N82E16812149119.  I'm gonna go ahead and stick with the Firewire card you suggested.


Here is the developers page for Apple which goes into  what works with what.

developer.apple.com/documentation/HardwareDrivers/Conceptual/HWTech_FireWire/Articles/FireW_concepts.html

The idea is to get a cable that fits the application you are using it for.  Getting a "better cable" is akin to buying  a great grounded extention cord (3-prong) when the socket you are plugging into isn't grounded(2-prong). The 9-pin can be  better (faster) if you have two devices with IEEE-1394b ports (9-pin) on them, which I don't think is the case here. 

In this case if you are getting a card PC card  with a 6-pin socket  on it you wouldn't want to get a cable with a 9-pin connector to plug into it. Firewire 800 (9-pin) is not all that common yet so my guess is you are going to want the 6-pin to 6-pin cable for this job, Shady.

I'd wait for differentlife to weigh in here because I don't have a cable box to look at to be 100% sure,  but that is my guess.
Username: differentlife
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12/07/2006 2:34 AM Alert 
CRB's got it. The connector on my cable box is a 6-pin. A 9-pin cable won't even fit (I don't think). Same with the Firewire card, 6-pin connectors not 9-pin.

Katcrazy2006 also has it right. That link has everything. But I didn't use those accidentworld drivers. I used some others that didn't list the 6416 box, just the 6412. The accidentsworld drivers lists the 6416 but says it's "untested". I used these from "Naylia":
http://www.htpcnews.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1346

(They are the ones linked from here:
http://htpcnews.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10499
page 11, post #163
http://www.htpcnews.com/forums/index.php?s=d5144ca3f5113f648c85fac84a3fbe4c&showtopic=10499&st=150
)

I use the CapDVHS listed in the avsforum page (http://www.yamabe.org/soft/CapDVHS0306e.zip).

Download Summary
Get the drivers. You can decide later which one to try. I think they'll both work:
1. Accidentsworld: http://www.accidentsworld.com/tgb/firestb.zip
2. Naylia's: http://www.htpcnews.com/forums/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=1346
Get CapDVHS
3. http://www.yamabe.org/soft/CapDVHS0306e.zip

I'll do another post tomorrow on setting up the drivers before and after you first plug in the box.
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12/07/2006 2:44 AM Alert 
Username: Bigshady
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12/07/2006 10:12 PM Alert 
I placed the order for the firewire stuff. Probably won't get here till Monday.
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12/10/2006 12:14 AM Alert 
Hi BigShady. While you're waiting for that shipment to come in...

OK, so the first thing to note is that you should leave the cable box unconnected to your computer until after you install the cable box drivers.

"Unknown" or ! devices?
Second, I noticed you said after the USB plug-in, Windows popped up "New hardware detected" but then it didn't install any drivers for it. Is there now an unknown device or one with a ! next to it in your Device Manager (Control Panel > System > Hardware)? This might or might not be a problem later on when you plug in the Firewire. If you're comfortable doing so, you can uninstall and/or disable the device. But before doing that, I would run System Restore and create a restore point, just in case you want to undo changes later.

Actually, regardless, you might want to do a System Restore.

Installing the cable box drivers
Once your Firewire card is in your computer and installed (it was totally plug-and-play for me), you can choose which cable box drivers to install. I guess these:
http://www.accidentsworld.com/tgb/firestb.zip
are a little easier to install and it lists your box, the 6416. If you prefer to use the Naylia ones, which are the ones I used, just post and I'll put up instructions for those. (But keep in mind my box is different, a DCT6200)

If you use the accidentsworld ones above:
Inside the zip is a firestb.msi installer file to run and a readme.mht that gives instructions.

During the installation, you will be able to choose from a list of things to install. Since you have XP not MCE, you can only use the following:
"Firewire Command line apps"
"Firewire Drivers"

Continue on and you will then be ready to connect the cable box

Connecting the cable box to your computer
Another webpage claims you should use the "right" firewire port on the cable box ("Right" looking from the back of the box) because some people have reported problems using the other firewire port on the cable box.

If you continue following the instructions in the readme.mht file under "Firewire Driver Installation" hopefully you'll be ready to do some capping! I'll post again on how to do that.

If you haven't already, now would be a good time to install either Media Player Classic or VLC Player, or both. These programs can view the raw captured file that you'll get. They're in my Stuff thread here, post #4:
http://katharinefans.com/Forums/tabid/92/forumid/26/view/topic/postid/64927/Default.aspx

wow, was that as tiring reading this post as writing it?
Username: Bigshady
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12/11/2006 9:05 PM Alert 
Ok, I got the stuff in the mail today. I don't have any "unknown" or "!" devices, but if you still think I should do a System Restore then Ok. I've never done one so I may need some direction on that process.

I downloaded the driver (accidentsworld, the Naylia one gave me an error message), and the CapDVHS, and I already have MPC.
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