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 Katharine McPhee & Elliott Yamin - Real Love (Radio Edit) - Single - Real Love Get "Real Love" radio edit!
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Subject: The Monheit Controversy
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Username: I_Heart_Kat
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Katharine Crazy
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06/15/2006 12:22 AM Alert 
I just got done listening to Jane Monheit's version of SOTR (u have plan ur day around it its so freaking long) and its NOTHING like Kat's!

What was all that controversy about?  I see that the beginning is similar, but the rest is 100% KAT!

Peace.

PS Sorry that im like a month late on this but I just heard it so bare with me
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06/15/2006 12:29 AM Alert 
I agree. It doesn't sound anything like Kat's, never quite understood the controversy myself. It actually really irritated me.
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06/15/2006 12:57 AM Alert 
This has been disscussed before and it went downhill because of the content of the replies.... make sure this stays as a healthy disscussion and respectful
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06/15/2006 1:23 AM Alert 
I thought some of her phrasing sounded a bit like Eva Cassidy but I'm no expert. I just borrowed an EC CD from the library out of curiosity after all the Rainbow discussions got started here. Her voice isn't much like either one, but then the flap was over something else.

katpedia.com - watch and listen to Idol, pre-Idol, and post-Idol McPhee performances all in one convenient location

"And everything around her is a silver pool of light... She makes you calm, she holds you captivated in her palm"
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06/15/2006 7:19 AM Alert 
The controversy arose from a post that Monheit made on her blog saying that while she was "flattered" that Katharine chose to emulate her, it was "unfortunate" that Kat's version was a little more than imitation--in other words, suggesting that Kat's version was a direct copy.

My personal opinion is that when Monheit made that post, she probably didn't understand how AI works with covers--that the arrangements performed on the show are basically spoon-fed to the finalists. From what I understand, Simon suggested the Monheit version to Kat and the AI arrangers, and it went from there.

I think the real problem was in the fact that AI goofed and didn't mention which version Kat was singing beforehand (as they did when Elliott did Donnie Hathaway versions of earlier songs--it was the same sort of thing with Chris singing Live's version of "I Walk the Line").

Also, Monheit made that blog post before Kat re-performed it on the finale--and before Kat publicly acknowledged Monheit and Cassidy as models for her performance. Her opinion might have changed since then, for all we know. But the root of it was that Monheit apparently misunderstood how AI does covers and placed the blame on the wrong head.

Somebody who basically handled it right when Kat covered one of her songs was KT Tunstall, who expressed genuine gratitude about Kat's performance sending her song up the charts (even if she did make fun of Kat doing it on her knees).
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06/15/2006 12:13 PM Alert 


Strange Monheit would say that....You'd think she'd realize when someone sings almost a completely different version of the song that it's NOT a copy. Very little similairty. I didn't see much the same with Eva's version either. Both of theirs take five minutes + to listen t, and the vocals are much "smoother." Even Kat's "licks" (the way she says "rainbow" the second time, "beyond the rainbow",  "that I heard of," "birds flyyyyy"......) were her own. Not imitation at all. This makes me think "bad thoughts" about Jane, but I'll refrain from saying them since Kat herself said she used some of Jane's style.

"I think it was the summertime when I laid eyes on you. I didn't even know your name...The boy you never wanted just steals your heart..."--Kat McPhee, Love Story

"4 walls and no you. The silence in this room is so loud...wow"--Kat McPhee, I Lost You

"I didn't see the crash that burnt the bridge, didn't see the missile that sank my loveship down..."--Kat McPhee, Dangerous

"Wanting you to be wanting me, no that ain't no way to be...You never were a friend of mine..."--Kat McPhee, Over It

"No more lonely nights to hurt me, no more tears left to spare, no more reasons to be unhappy. You threw them all up in the air..."--Kat McPhee, Each Other

"Your pedicure, white-tipped French. Your legs don't make no sense...Shoes like these make me hate flats..."--Kat McPhee, Open Toes
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06/15/2006 12:48 PM Alert 

This is not controversy.

SOTR is like 70 years old and has been redone 1000's of times.

And, shockingly, all the versions sound very similar.


___________________________
"I didn't choose Katharine, she chose me." - Jammer
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06/15/2006 9:28 PM Alert 
 OH, I am so very tired......................................... 

"This is not a story about how we hold ourselves back and how much we limit ourselves. It's about how you cannot limit yourself if you want to change your life." - Katharine McPhee

It doesn't get any better than that. ;-)
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06/15/2006 9:31 PM Alert 
The beginning IS similar to Monheits, and other segments. I can concede to that.

BUT..Kat also dot large segments from Eva Cassidy's version.

So it wasn't ALL of Jane's song.

Anyway, Kat wasn't in the wrong.

American Idol IS a Karaoke competition.

And she performed the song splendidly.

Jane Monheit should feel admired.
Username: I_Heart_Kat
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06/19/2006 3:52 PM Alert 
yeah, the fact that i know Jane Monheit's name now should make her love Kat
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06/20/2006 1:17 PM Alert 
Posted By I_Heart_Kat on 06/19/2006 3:52 PM
yeah, the fact that i know Jane Monheit's name now should make her love Kat


Lol I agree....
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06/20/2006 2:43 PM Alert 
I am sorry but all I can say is I have never heard of Jane Monheit until Kat did SOTR and now I know who she is (I also did not know who Eva Cassidy was) so I don't see a point in thinking she did not benefit from this experience. She is probably feeling differently by now.

I must reiterate that I still like Kat's version of all...Jane or Eva or even Ms Judy Garland's version.
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06/20/2006 3:21 PM Alert 
First of all, i so agree with winnpoober about how Kat's version is the best. Secondly, the reaction of Jane Monheit shud be like KT Tunsal's. KT was SO apreciative because it put BHATCT rise up the charts
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06/20/2006 4:02 PM Alert 
It was her fans that started saying stuff not Jane. Jane Monheit is a great jazz singer. Of course Kat is going to use bits & pieces of her style, she is one of her favorites.
The first time I saw & heard Jane sing was on Christmas in Washington last year when Carrie was on it, Jane was too. I thought wow she is a good singer. Thats the only reason I knew who she was.
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06/20/2006 4:39 PM Alert 
You're totally right shy, Janes fans were getting bent out of shape (we know how protective fans can be), and she was merely reacting to them. Jane's a great artist and a class act. Too bad she wasn't blesses with Kat's georgous voice, but then few are.

"She sings so magnificantly, it's just amazing" David Foster
Username: groucho
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06/20/2006 4:53 PM Alert 
Like someone said, I look at all this as part of my continuing education. I'd never heard of either Cassidy or Monheit and now I have, and will pursue this further. The whole thing of Katharine liking the old jazzy/bluesy classics is awakening an interest in people like Ella Fitzgerald, etc. all of which will further my musical knowledge and enjoyment. I came from a family of musicians, but I wasn't that much into music, I was the writer in the family. But the past few years I've been getting back into music, and discovering Katharine has helped this along. See, fandom can be educational as well as crazy!

katpedia.com - watch and listen to Idol, pre-Idol, and post-Idol McPhee performances all in one convenient location

"And everything around her is a silver pool of light... She makes you calm, she holds you captivated in her palm"
Username: I_Heart_Kat
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06/20/2006 4:58 PM Alert 
lol, well said Groucho
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06/20/2006 8:32 PM Alert 
Posted By groucho on 06/20/2006 4:53 PM
Like someone said, I look at all this as part of my continuing education. I'd never heard of either Cassidy or Monheit and now I have, and will pursue this further. The whole thing of Katharine liking the old jazzy/bluesy classics is awakening an interest in people like Ella Fitzgerald, etc. all of which will further my musical knowledge and enjoyment. I came from a family of musicians, but I wasn't that much into music, I was the writer in the family. But the past few years I've been getting back into music, and discovering Katharine has helped this along. See, fandom can be educational as well as crazy!

Nice tribute there, groucho. I'm sure if Kat saw that it would bring that great smile of hers to her face. One of the best compliments you can pay any kind of creative person is that they inspire you to broaden your horizons.

Kat's love for those classics is one of the main reasons I became a fan .... and it's very cool to see other people checking out the classics because of Kat!


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06/20/2006 10:07 PM Alert 
"On another note, many of you may be wondering what my thoughts are on American Idol. After viewing the performance for myself, I have to agree that at times Katharine's interpretation is quite similar to my own. When a young artist sings a standard, it's nearly impossible to interpret it in a way that isn't reminiscent of some version that came before it. It's flattering to think that someone has enjoyed my music enough to emulate it, but at the same time, "Rainbow" is special. I just want you to know that I'm going to keep singing it every night, and no matter what happens it'll always have the same meaning for me."


I think Jane must have edited the blog. When it was first written, she said that Kat's was a little more than reminescent and "alot of people have noticed," so either she changed her mind, or...I gotta say though, the style is similiar, and the timing and such, but the actual phrasing and emotion is Kat's own. Monheit's is nice but a bit of a sleeper. It's like the neverending song...nothing exciting happens (sorry to any of her fans). Anyway, I could understand her perspective when her fans have such a hissy fit about it, and I'm glad she's addressed the impossibility of Kat's version being completely original, but does no one else find it sketchy that she'd change her comments without mentioning the change in opinion? Anyway, one of her fan's comments really got to me. and I hope the "controversy" doesn't turn others away from Kat.

Hi Jane!

I just read an article on CNN.com that says Katharine McPhee just signed a record deal with Clive Davis and they plan to release two singles at the end of this month, one of them being "Somewhere Over the Rainbow".

Naturally, I have issue with this. I can already expect it to be the same version and performance as was presented on American Idol. She's already copied your interpretation and version almost exactly note for note. So with that anticipation, how exactly can we expect this to work out? Are they going to give you credit for copying you, or have they even contacted you in any fashion? I think it's dishonest and misleading not to credit you for your beautiful and unique verstion of that song.

I'm curious to fing out what will happen, but in a situation like this, one must give credit where credit is do.

This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Note for note? Not nearly! At least it seems he referred to "they" and not Kat, herself, but that's my only positive thought here. Has this guy even heard Kat's version?



P.S. I checked out this guy's MySpace, and it appears he's a part time stage actor, and singing "is his passion." He also works in child welfare research...Not a bad person, but he shouldn't jump to conclusions.

This one also upset me, not for what the poster says about Jane, but the sly little mention of Kat.

Hi Jane's myspace again!

First and foremost, you and I both know that "Over the Rainbow" belongs to one person, and one person only-- that'd be JUDY. Now, with that in mind, I am fiercely "protective" of Over the Rainbow, and I do not normally like listening to other people singing her song.  But the very first time I heard you sing, I heard Over the Rainbow, and more importantly, the recording of when you were a little kid singing it.  Even at such a young age, you had it.  You had the very idea of the song, the words, and their meanings. You were not, and have not been just singing pretty notes, with dreams and bluebird wording, like so many do (i.e. McPhee a la AI).  Though others' versions sound "pretty" or melodical, they don't "get it".  YOU get it, Jane.  And I think, more so than any arrangement, that's really the key.  If you notice, through the years, Judy's arrangements and stylings of the song changed because her interpretation changed. She sang her heart through that song more than any other song she sang.  I think out of all the other performers who have attempted to sing it, that you have been able to connect with Judy's idea of the song and reach down deep into the music and bring out the brains, the courage, and overall- the heart of it.  Before Judy it was just Harold's music and Yip's words on paper, Judy brought it to life, and you- in my opinion- keep it there.  It's not a place you can get to by a boat, or a train.. it's far far away.. behind the moon, beyond the rain.. and you've found it. 


As a Kat fan, I obviously disagree with her dismissing of her version as "not getting it." I heard and still hear pain the Kat's first two renditions of the song. Kat "gets it." Yes, with a song like this, there will naturally be a feeling of whimsy, but that's why it's such a timeless song, for it perfectly melds the fantasy aspect with reality, and when Kat sings it, I get a feeling that "over the rainbow" is a dreamworld that the singer deludes herself into thinking she'll be but knows in her heart she'll never be. Kat captures this beautifully. I'm also a bit upset on behalf of the Eva Cassidy version. Again, though a little sleep-inducing for me, if one hears that and gets a feeling of "pretty notes and bluebirds," then they're not really listening.


"I think it was the summertime when I laid eyes on you. I didn't even know your name...The boy you never wanted just steals your heart..."--Kat McPhee, Love Story

"4 walls and no you. The silence in this room is so loud...wow"--Kat McPhee, I Lost You

"I didn't see the crash that burnt the bridge, didn't see the missile that sank my loveship down..."--Kat McPhee, Dangerous

"Wanting you to be wanting me, no that ain't no way to be...You never were a friend of mine..."--Kat McPhee, Over It

"No more lonely nights to hurt me, no more tears left to spare, no more reasons to be unhappy. You threw them all up in the air..."--Kat McPhee, Each Other

"Your pedicure, white-tipped French. Your legs don't make no sense...Shoes like these make me hate flats..."--Kat McPhee, Open Toes
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06/21/2006 3:07 AM Alert 
Just to add on to Groucho's comment: I admit to getting a bit burned out on music in general the last year or so--and decided to focus on my own writing projects most of the time. After you grow up with hearing so much music (and playing so much of it on the piano) for so many years, you almost want to take a break. Also, nothing really inspired me lately. And then there was Kat...

Since Kat, I've been more inspired to listen to people like Jane Monheit and Ella again that I hadn't for a while. I've also gone back to working on the piano more that had somewhat of a hiatus. Plus, while realizing how much of a vocal influence Jane is to Kat, I've begun listening to Monheit all over again. I listen a little deeper to her vocal tone now and understand what Kat's learned from her.
That 'controversy' with Jane's blog has really been blown out of proportion. It could be that Jane made some initial quick-trigger assumptions as others did about Kat and her personality/intentions. Once the word got out that 'AI' was responsible for the first arrangement of 'OTR', and not Kat, it could be she softened her blog in a re-edit as posted above.

There seems to be a real divide between real musicians on who's actually better as a performer: Jane or Kat. To me, I think Kat learned well from listening to Jane and just applied her technique onto her own inherent and profound abilities. Along with that, Kat's purity in her vocal timbre just seems to haunt me more. Some voices stay with you longer and other don't. While's Jane's style has improved (and I recognize her immediately when I hear her now), her voice has never haunted me nearly as much. I understand that you have to listen a little deeper with Jane to appreciate what she's doing with vocal control. But Kat has a more compelling force that still comes through on a CD. I admit that Kat is probably more compelling just watching her--where Jane can be compelling just listening.

With 'OTR', Kat's single version was re-invented to sound like a pop song now. And I just find it refreshing that Kat can apply what she learned from a masterful jazz singer and apply it to pop music. Pop music should thank her for it--before she possibly makes a swift exit from there in another year's time.
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06/21/2006 6:00 AM Alert 
OTR is special for a lot of people and when you hear it from artists like Jane and now Kat, and you could feel the haunting quality, then more kudos to the artists. Both Jane and Kat were able to make it real for me - Judy Garland too and I basically heard Judy's version only recently - and only after Kat performed it...Yes, I believe Jane had actually edited her earlier post; Like everybody else, ppl can change their minds any time - Good for her - I thought;

Jane's version is real for me and Kat's version (voice) haunts me ; It is becos' of Kat's version of OTR that made me decide to keep a copy of her debut CD, out of the 10 copies I have donated to others... Prior to that when it was supposed to have been "Think", I was not too keen ; What can I say? I am converted... *peace*
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06/21/2006 3:41 PM